Topic: Cobol

IBM shares dropped 13% following reports that AI models like Claude can now effectively program in COBOL, threatening IBM's legacy mainframe service business. While AI can handle basic coding, the hosts argue that troubleshooting complex Linux kernels still requires human expertise due to persistent AI hallucinations.

A listener correction regarding COBOL programming leads to a discussion on the difficulties of maintaining millions of lines of legacy code. The hosts also debunk a recent NPR report as a "hoax," referencing a detailed article on the "dev.to" website that exposed the inaccuracies in the original story.

The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is reportedly clashing with the United States Digital Service (USDS) over federal data management and legacy systems. A USDS data scientist criticized DOGE's "junior" staffers for not understanding the complexity of 1960s-era COBOL systems used by Social Security. However, proponents of DOGE argue that COBOL is a relatively simple language and that the real issue is the mismanagement of records, such as the thousands of "150-year-old" individuals found in government databases.

Kevin O'Leary discusses applying private equity "slashing" tactics to government agencies. He specifically targets the FAA, claiming the agency relies on outdated COBOL code from the 1960s that requires significant capital expenditure for modernization.

Technical experts warn that federal agencies like the Treasury and IRS rely on aging COBOL legacy systems maintained by "graybeard" programmers who are now retiring. There are concerns that DOGE's attempt to modernize these systems using AI-assisted coding will fail because large language models are not trained on COBOL. This technical friction could lead to significant delays in processing 2025 tax refunds.

The hosts reflect on the Y2K scare of the late 1990s, describing it as a massive scam that funneled billions of dollars to consultants. They recall the dire predictions of planes falling from the sky and the global banking system collapsing due to date-coding errors in COBOL and FORTRAN programs. They argue that the unnecessary spending on Y2K compliance contributed to the eventual dot-com market crash.

Technical details regarding airline reservation systems reveal that while COBOL is used for accounting, core functions like ticketing and seating often run on IBM assembly language and the Transaction Processing Facility (TPF) operating system. These legacy systems remain in use due to their unmatched transaction processing speed. The history of outsourcing code to India in the 1990s is noted as having had mixed results for the industry.

Deputy Treasury Secretary Wally Adeyemo defended the department's inability to prioritize payments in the event of a debt default, citing the IRS's reliance on the 40-year-old COBOL programming language. The hosts mock Adeyemo's informal demeanor during the interview and his mispronunciation of the language as "Cobalt." They discuss the reality of legacy mainframe systems that still underpin global finance and government operations.

Speaker Kevin McCarthy and President Biden reached an "agreement in principle" to lift the debt ceiling, which includes some spending reductions. A key point of contention was the funding for 80,000 new IRS agents, which McCarthy claims has been significantly curtailed in the deal. The hosts reiterate their respect for COBOL programmers who maintain the critical infrastructure these politicians often misunderstand.

The implementation of the CARES Act has faced hurdles as state unemployment systems struggle to process new claims due to outdated COBOL programming. Governors like Greg Abbott of Texas are moving to relax rules to get citizens back to work as financial pressure mounts.

New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy makes a public plea for COBOL programmers to help fix the state's 40-year-old unemployment insurance systems. The hosts discuss how the entire country's financial and government infrastructure still relies on this legacy language. They joke about "COBOL Cowboys" coming out of retirement to handle the surge in claims.

British Airways is criticized for its aging IT infrastructure, which reportedly relies on a surplus system purchased from Qantas and outsourced programming in India. In a related aviation news item, American Airlines experienced a scheduling glitch that left thousands of flights without pilots for the Christmas season. The hosts discuss the financial impact of these technical failures on the airline industry.

A detailed report from a producer in Sweden describes the struggle to replace a 1977 COBOL-based government system. The project faces significant hurdles because the original "spaghetti code" is undocumented and the aging programmers who understand it are not training replacements.

A Government Accountability Office (GAO) report reveals that the U.S. military still uses 8-inch floppy disks from the 1970s to coordinate nuclear forces. While the media portrays this as a dangerous security flaw, the hosts argue that legacy COBOL systems are more secure because they lack modern internet connectivity. One host recounts owning a collection of vintage 8-inch disks and custom shirts designed to hold floppy media.

Donald Trump argued for a stronger but more efficiently funded military, claiming that political contacts lead to the purchase of unwanted equipment. He highlighted the fact that the Defense Department has never been successfully audited. The hosts discuss the technical debt of government systems, specifically the continued use of COBOL and Skip Logic.

The Pentagon has announced it will likely fail its 2017 audit deadline, citing the use of antiquated COBOL computer systems from the 1970s. However, computer science students argue that COBOL is still widely taught and functional. The delay is characterized as a cover-up for the $2.3 trillion in unaccounted funds first mentioned by Donald Rumsfeld in 2001.

The Department of Defense is unlikely to meet its 2017 audit-ready deadline, citing a reliance on thousands of obsolete accounting systems written in COBOL. The hosts dismiss this as a lie intended to cover up fraud and waste, noting that the Army alone lost track of $5.8 billion between 2003 and 2011.

A review of past comments by former Federal CTO Vivek Kundra highlights the procurement and technology failures of Healthcare.gov. The discussion centers on the government's reliance on "1960s era technology" and "skip logic" in modern administrative systems.

The technical nature of high-frequency trading software is discussed, with a focus on the speed of execution and the use of low-level code. The FBI's rapid arrest of the software programmer is contrasted with their typically slow investigation process, suggesting that Goldman Sachs has a "red phone" line to federal law enforcement to protect their proprietary algorithms.

Vivek Kundra predicts a shift in the human-computer interface, moving away from "binary or COBOL ways" of interaction toward more intuitive systems like a Star Trek holodeck. He uses technical terms such as "skip logic" and "bandwidth constraints" to describe software architecture. Critics mock the use of these terms, noting that skip logic is a basic telemarketing survey tool rather than a revolutionary computing concept.