Show 200.7 Redux

00:01 I How long does it last? Well, as long as there's mold. There is always mold! Right but it's... Adam Curry John C. DeVora It's Thursday July 5th 2015 time once again for Gitmo Nation Media Assassination Episode 736 This Is No Agenda Analyzing ourselves once again and broadcasting live from the Crackpot Condo in FEMA Region 6 Downtown Austin TAY House In the morning everybody I'm Adam Curry And from Northern Silicon Valley I'm John C. DeVoreye. I'm just presuming. I'm just presuming that that's funny no you were like and I'm John Cena or a kid, but episode 200 point 7 aka 736 and we do these periodically

01:13 We're doing done it once before twice before we did a show called 200.5 Which was kind of an introduction to people to the show I? Did don't get a lot of the memes and the noises And the things that we do in some of the history of the show then we reduxed the show we did it again on two years later which was around 435 I think yes, right six yeah in the four hundred and and we didn't do it since, and we're almost into the 800s now. So we felt that we should do one more look at the history of no agenda as Apparently, I listened to the show again last night. Apparently we don't even know the history of the show. We have people ask us questions and couldn't really answer many of them. We had a lot of theories and never discussed much about the show being performance art which has that element and I don't think we talked about that at all which is odd since it's always been that way

02:13 And we wanted to do this one more time with maybe some more explanatory stuff, play that one old show again. But I want to mention that this will be the last time we do this. We are going to at some point in the next year or two do another Deconstruction of our own show, but we're gonna do it from scratch right and we'll have to will start over We probably have to bring the weenie in the button put back in which was one of my favorite parts of listening To 200.5 again I was like oh yes Yes that was actually the highlight of the whole show I noticed a number of things though Well let me ask you what did you notice listening too? well we listened to two hundred point six which included 200.5 and

02:57 More things that well what I heard was a lot of fact of the matter exactly yeah, no essentially All the crap that we've moaned and groan about we had not really we had not caught on to it. No oh In 2012 and this was done. Yeah, we had not caught on to it And so you hear it and you just cringe cringe-worthy I know then but seriously yeah no all over the place essentially actually What I write down here

03:33 um... whatever the case but i think a standard day home and that's back to the matter so does this mean we've gotten better or are we just anal i think we're more cognizant i think it's self-awareness i think that's what's important but i think if also think that the listeners are in the producers that follow us since we've been bitching and moaning about is that we just got a letter from somebody say well you know no is fine he should be able to say then get all these rationales we don't want to say that's the key But we've made everybody else aware of these little picadillos. And I know that this is the same thing like that we're going through when you watch a TV show or you listen to somebody on the radio and they keep saying, The fact doesn't matter! At the end of the day...

04:16 I know it's horrible. Well, you know change your words change your world What now that's a book? I once read change your words change your world But I think that's probably true yeah It makes me speak in another language and of course the other thing I note well The I'll tell ya I'll say what I noticed another thing is Audio quality be different forms of it did 2010 audio quality was terrible Yeah And you were bitching about it, in fact. You were saying hey my mic sounds like crap and it wasn't something I could necessarily do anything about at the time Well apparently did something about it because of the 2012 presentation I've sounded great! Except for wait wait except for the middle bit No the cutouts The cutouts Commonly would say something like well one of the reasons that I've done that is because

05:06 And so that's the way it works. It'd be this long, you know... Oh right right right right right Lots of dropouts Yeah yeah Well that is Skype that has just improved and we have much higher bandwidth now but the main thing that's changed and I've been on my- and if you even say in 200.5 You would say how would you were anal about audio really like audio quality has to be good and we were just struggling with what we had I think at one point during that time, because i wanted everything to be as digital as possible or as contained as possible. Because of going on trips and traveling abroad and not wanting to schlep along the entire studio a lot of it was external gear

05:49 I remember at one point, I was actually doing the show probably for a year and a half with a very slight delay on my headphone so that I could monitor in real time what was happening. Because we record pretty much direct to tape as you call it...I need to know what the end product is so that we don't have to go back and do things after-the-fact." Not that that's necessarily all that noticeable in our performance, but anyway. Wow! Big difference of what we have now and that is purely because of this universal audio real time zero latency plug-in system that were using. Right, which makes a difference in the sound it also does another reason we have to do the show again from scratch sometime next time because the information that we gave out about the technical aspects of the show is all set for my still talking free air which you

06:47 You were fascinated with both shows. It doesn't come up on the show much, I don't use headphones The reason why it was... well first of all i'm still fascinated by it because it's just not a typical radio thing I don't think Although again ill use the anecdote a guy in Vancouver used to do that on the air Vancouver enough said Well it was big market, Vancouver is not a slouch town We had a we had a long period where because I didn't have proper noise gating and other effects Where I would hear myself come back through from your speakers into your microphone Yeah, and then you'd play the clip turn down your speaker. Oh wow I mean do I even how you ever talked about that in the show? I don't know if I have that let me see turn turn down your speakers which was annoying oh

07:34 Yeah. Jarring and it was I banned it. Here it is. Turn down your speakers! Now, I thought that was you? No thats Michael Butler. Yeah, but you're so Butler. That's good. That's good. But that was a function of mine not using headphones and yeah Well, it is. It has the audio equipment has drastically changed the show because we can pretty much do the same show no matter where I am and you also are able to do it almost from anywhere because you pretty much just have to have your microphone as you are still using your M-Audio breakout box? Is that what you're using? Well, I'm using a newer one that has two channels

08:15 Because the other one blew up. When I'm in Washington North, I do use the old M-Audio box because I had two of them and one of them blew up and I used it up there but this is really a nice boxes new one that doesn't just says M-Audio on it let's see if he has got a model number It's the M-Track something or other The other ones are M-Track too but this is 2 channel black and its really pretty I don't know that it works perfectly, but it does work. I think and no, it's fantastic It sounds good where you're also you're the you the mic man. You know you have found The microphone that is perfect for your voice for our setup Is outstanding yeah? I've got a good mic here And I've got it I used to pr-40 up north its just then I want to deal with

09:09 With the 48 volts and all the rest of it because I don't believe has a phantom power Anything else we need to talk about? I took a lot of notes. We can talk about it at the mid break, you had a bunch of stories that we talked about but here's where let me give the design and what were up too. We've cut out the original 2000 point six opening because it makes no sense and was mostly about Adam getting married right then and that's the reason he did with this show right so just pulling that and then the mid-break which answers questions Unfortunately, the questions and the answers are dated. There's a couple of things in there that are okay but I may drop them in when I edit this thing but we're pulling that out and we're gonna do a new one and that's what we're gonna do halfway through the show and then at the end we're gonna have the original ending which is the 200.5 ending and then as you go to music week

10:06 they interrupt those two guys, John and Adam of 2012. They come in from the past and they interrupt the ending and they're going to yak about something and then we, John and Adam from 2015 are going to interrupt them and finish the whole thing and you're gonna have a nice piece of entertainment and realize that this is being retired. But just in case Just in case for whatever reason in a year or two we decide to still use something from this 200.7 show I know We agree, we won't I just want to say hi to Adam and John from the future Just want to make sure that they're all happy yeah One more thing that And that partially has to do with the setup and Really

10:57 We've improved a lot of the technical pieces. A lot of that is just Moore's Law, you know? Computers have become better and just the whole setup is much easier to handle for me." I noticed that I am able to listen to you I have better listening skills now than I had in both of those eras, let's call them that. And to this day after the show was posted and we're done... We always do a post-mortem, we gossip about stuff nothing really show related just Old wives gossip, you know whatever. We also discussed if this show had some issues we talked about that always which is what we're supposed to do but we end up gossiping and we ended up gossiping I always listen to the show and And into this day still there's their moments. I'm like, oh I didn't hear what he was saying I didn't I didn't understand it and that's mainly because I'm doing things of getting clips ready or I'm listening trying to anticipate What clip you're talking about because if in case it wasn't clear

11:56 And maybe this needs to be reiterated. We don't talk outside of the show, rarely... I have no idea what stories John's working on he has no ideas what i'm working on Of course we kind of now throughout the years know you know What will we may or may not pick up on and I can actually say uh? But I don't have to worry about that. I think John will cover that but And sometimes I do and sometimes they don't. I think I missed one thing recently when you groused at me, it was the White House Correspondents Dinner right? I missed it. It's missed that it was my night. You're right. I should have had a couple of one line good clips from one liners or something funny and I miss the whole thing. I didn't even get to what I like to watch the red carpet thing is very on this season. One of these days we're going to do live commentary whenever you need it. We never know. Yeah probably not

12:44 But I'm, I think that i've gotten better at listening to what you have to say and when I listen these all it's to me It's cringe-worthy. Oh man You didn't understand at all what he was talking about and that's probably one of the biggest problems In life, but certainly in media where most people if they're interviewing somebody we're not interviewing each other But we're having a conversation. Well, we make clips from people that that botch You know as I said something crazy and the guy just ignores them Yeah so i'm completely guilty of that and but it's mainly because i'm doing a whole bunch of other things to say I also keep my eye on the chat room which is well known you don't do

13:25 And there's more benefit than not to, for me looking at the chat room. I'd get benefit out of it but... I said, in one of these shows in 200.5 that it's so distracting to me because I just end up reading what they have to say instead of doing the show. Yeah, it is distracting and then sometimes you don't hear stuff. So I've gotten better. I'm happy with that personal improvement goal. Yeah, I think I personally improved on some things too. Probably not as much as I'd like

14:04 I haven't been replaying clips that were played on previous shows as much. I don't think I've done it maybe once every two or three months, maybe? What do you mean? I don't understand what you're saying You play a clip like on show 250 and then 252 I play the clip as though it's new Remember that? Yeah, once in awhile. With the horn. No, with the buzzer Which for some reason is one channel only. No, no that wasn't the buzzer you used to use that submarine dive sound I don't know if i have that anymore. I don't think it was the buzzer for that. We've also lost a lot of clips. No we haven't really lost a lot of them Well they're not technically lost They're like stuff in my archives. I have no idea what that sound effect was

14:57 It was not important. discuss the history and then there's a break, when we get to the break point we'll come back in. Okay here we go. Adam Curry John C. Dvorak It's May 16th 2010 time for your Gitmo Nation media assassination episode 200.5 This is No Agenda Welcome to a special backstage tour of The No Agenda Show coming to you from the Hilltop Watchtower Crackpot Command Center in Gitmo Nation West

15:39 In the People's Republic of Southern California, in the morning I'm Adam Curry. And it is not really a media assassination today it's a no agenda assassination. I am John C. Dvorak. It's Crackpot and Buzzkill! In The Morning! We still get to say in the morning Yeah, definitely. In the morning never goes away you know the thing is we should tell people this is really a show where we're just essentially going to talk about the show and answer a lot of questions and probably ask some but one of things You should immediately note that we actually had a debate as to whether we're going to play the opening jingle. It's kind of sad that we didn't put the debate on the backstage show. This is kinda where, yeah I think on this show which is driven by support from our producers slash donors supporters

16:33 where we kind of bear it all. Not that we have any secrets, I don't think but people just want to know a lot of stuff that we don't put into the show because little known facts... We make it look easy And also a lot of this personal stuff that they're asking, because I sent out a message on Twitter to get some questions and we also got a couple emails and you worked up some questions yourself. To be honest about it, a lot of is just plain boring. Yes indeed! You know John and I have been in... In fact you said this on episode 200 We've been in media, all forms of media from print, you probably have been around typesetting

17:11 Actually, I used to be a typesetter part-time when I was in college. See? Doesn't surprise me all the way through to today's reality based television programming and everything in between on mainstream media And I would say, well I certainly gave up a number of years ago and uh... and i am patently unhirable by mainstream media. In fact the last uh... Well especially after you did that CFTC thing! Yeah that's right when I said Michael Jackson was probably killed and they cut me off and of course now it turns out he probably was uh... but in the last radio station i was on which was around the time we started this show actually in fact no you were doing is that so while we're doing this show here but i think we started the show yeah but i don't lead on a couple like a week or two and then we started doing this show right i was doing at first wasn't i know i think you are fired during the house fired during it we were doing original when i was fired by only just started that show yet nothing we did for about a month

18:16 I was trying to think back, because that was...I think 26 of either October or November 2007. The first episode was like 35 minutes. The good old days! Yes. I was living in London which did give the show a very different flavor, I have to say. I was also baked out of my mind Right. Although, you know to be honest about it I don't think that was apparent and I actually argue with you uh... i don't think your personality has changed that much from stop since you stopped smoking right but well there's a couple of episodes there where I remember one time when I went off on some tangent and said dude im so baked

18:58 But yeah, I do remember that but the personality well. I'm happy to hear that I'm just more awake and I can do more and I'm more focused Yeah, and you finally got a rig that makes me sound decent Yeah, but that's well You know at the end there we had it pretty good set up It sounded okay, but this is the best one I have to say this is definitely the best one so now we met in At, I guess... Where did we meet John? Was I in Cranky Geeks? Well Tangents.com on Twitter asked the question. Uh... DeVrille Dvorak and Curry have a unique relationship how did you guys meet so that you hit it off right away i'll tell you something i found uh... in my crap that arrived from uh... from the UK I found a videotape

19:45 of the CNET pilots where we actually first met for the very first time. Although I think that was in 1993, three or four maybe? I think it was three and yeah and i'm going to get one of those VHS DVR thingies to transcode all of this stuff, but this was when CNET did not have a website in fact I registered cnet.com and said to Halsey minor Hey dude You know I'll do your email if you want you know you might want to have a web thing that I think that would be more appropriate for what? You're doing here But alright up they paid me like 20 grand to do that pilot

20:22 uh... which was nice and you were doing kind of a mclaughlin group type roundtable as the pilot for that show yeah they died in debt that's kinda interesting because we've seen it they actually uh... went through a whole bunch of people before they decided what did need to do it and i didn't really want to do it actually be asked by never wanted to work for cnet but i did like idea vote watching kevin wendell at work once they brought him out he was there was no he was a guy from fox Yeah, he's a guy from somewhere. He's a Hollywood guy! He had set up the Fox network. He was one of the driving programming forces behind Fox. Early days... Well I don't remember that.

21:00 whatever the case was he was a slick operator it was fun to watch him work and uh... but they first wanted leo laporte to be that mclaughlin guy and leo wanted to do it of badly he was always one of that torte that sort of gig and because buskers very serious into this and that hence but they had me do it uh... but did that never got off the ground just wasn't gonna work and then so then they gave you some other job being a at kind of a clown ish co-host With the Gina st. John oh yeah, well they offered me to move out to San Francisco and be there full-time And they offered like really low salary but two million shares of stock and I declined Yeah That was an error well who knows what you know? I was like well. Yeah, I know it's a crapshoot. I did the same thing I screwed up

21:50 I said, how many shares outstanding? Well it was vague right. You know what, I got a pretty good thing here at MTV and I'm good So anyway we met in 93 casually Very casually But you know we followed each other's careers a little bit but then i was kind of triggered by that when you had your moment of richness And I was floating around Europe and ran into a newspaper with one of these papers, I think it was a Dutch story somewhere. And it had a picture of you and you're some superstar in Holland... This is unbelievable! So how did this guy make so much money? Yeah. And then you showed up again in town and we just kind of forced myself on him. But wasn't it a... Yes that was nice but wasn't it a... Wasn't I on Cranky Geeks when we connected?

22:37 No, I think we met up first and then i put you on cranky geeks. Well where the hell was it John because... We did an email exchange And I said let's go have lunch or something we had our first lunch our initial re-meeting lunch at the Fringal and we talked about getting a daily news show the tech five thing ideas like that and then we went to had a big meeting with Ron in the office Yeah, Ron Blum You are in Cranky Geeks after that. I'm trying to look now in my email if I have something from you, from... That must've been 2007 right? Probably How do you do that Gmail? Do you do date 2007? I don't know Anyway that's basically the story and then we uh

23:27 I don't know, but then we just kind of naturally got along. We really don't know! That's the answer...we really don't know how that happened. We actually get along just in some funny way it's not really explainable so you meet somebody and or you've known them for a long time so you know they're obviously not assassins, though of course that may not be true But whatever the case is you uh, you've always had unity had an acquaintance and then you decide that You know now you're working together. It's almost like, you know where people meet on a Hollywood set Then they're hanging out a lot And then they'd go off their separate ways but instead of going off our separate way since we were both thinking at me vo We decided to start doing a show and that now it's debatable Is that you know how it got named when we started I think I came up with a name

24:12 I don't know if that's true. I think you're the one that approved the name. Are you going to tell me it was your brain fart? I think it was, well we got no agenda and then you said let's call it No Agenda! Yeah, that sounds about right actually. That sounds good. Something like that and then as it evolved we go into other things which are kind of the same kind of like... came up with the idea, I mean that the donation thing. Well before we get to that because the show started off with a very different format it was in fact i think our first show was on a Friday And like a Friday afternoon, Friday morning for you. And we would just talk about stuff and I would grab the Financial Times but we'd also just talk about stuff. You know the difference between America and Europe right? It was just like a casual conversation yeah just like a conversation yeah. And this wasn't in my opinion

25:06 I've always felt that two guys, an interesting conversation between two people is interesting to everybody. And i've always believed that I could sell conversations with my wife and I always felt it a good conversational show where there's not a lot of uh... rehearsal or per preparation which is guys who just talking about stuff that they know a lot about and coincidentally because the two of us are so extremely well-traveled and i mean pretty much been everywhere and and up and observant because you know we're generally floating around looking at stuff uh... it turns out we have a enough life experience to uh...

25:45 to have an interesting conversation and we're both from slightly different backgrounds so we could compliment each other in ways that I thought was interesting for people to listen in on. Yeah, and from my perspective...I was looking to do a show with total honesty Not in the regard of, oh let's all hold hands and tell each other a secret. But more like you know why don't we just say what it is not be fake and just talk about stuff and we can contradict and we can have an argument and we don't have to... In fact we had no No thoughts even I think about making money doing no agenda. Yeah, we had absolutely no agenda And and I was just happy that someone would listen to my bullshit Like hey here's the guy who actually knows more than me because he's been around longer for sure and and and has and will listen to some of the because I think I was

26:36 I was maybe a late bloomer. I was like saying, oh wait a minute the world kind of works a little bit differently because i was so embedded in the hits you know that's all I did. I played hits on radio on television like you know how I knew what all the celebrities were doing and all of sudden like hey this there's something else going on here. I think I corrupted you more than you corrupted me when it comes to this show correct? I would agree mainly because of my natural cynicism. I took a test, it was a computer software program some years ago that was career guidance, it was almost like an elaborate computer testing to answer million questions, it was like MMPI or Minnesota Multi-Faculty

27:18 phase personality inventory that people takes in some companies. It's actually an illegal test, you shouldn't be forced to take it but it can tell whether you're a psycho and all these other things this was the determine what your career path should be I took the tests a couple of times and it was the weirdest thing to get back at the top of my career path this is telling ya this is where you should go be doing critic really yeah that's awesome it's really good I like that so anyway so yeah we've got to think when we started there is a couple you know...I got like hand worker on all my tests, you should be shoveling shit boy! You shouldn't be in any kind of business. You might be surprised the test was pretty amazing and other people take is just like nailing people left and right wish I could if I could find it in my archive. If you can find it I'll take it. If they can reproduce it in modern format would be nice

28:13 So anyway, we started the show just casually and it had a... It really started picking up a following quickly and people were feeding back into the mechanism encouraging the continuation of the show. And then somewhere along in line this was your idea I'm sure of it because it could have been mine you decided to do two shows a week Yeah, ummm....I don't remember why There was some reason because I think we're starting the show is starting to get long. Yeah, and we said well Why don't we why do two shows actually that's when we made a real commitment though? And for now that way that was much later in the game We made a real commitment to do two shows after we we said hey you know this is real. We're building an audience

29:00 But I think we were going for a good year there just on one show. We probably went a year building an audience and we had kind of weird audience because they were really your fans separate from my fans, and my fans would say you should do the show by yourself! You should get rid of Curry and I give that motherfucker two to the head, man. We don't count any dead bastards! And it's always made me laugh because it's like oh yeah thats what you want just some guy talking solid By the way... No conversation no pace and flow I've never received NEVER received an email of someone saying get rid of Dvorak ever I have seen the Get Rid Of Dvorak meme on Twitter and I've seen here in there

29:44 I'm not kidding. I've never seen it. Nice then well, then your fans are less less Crazy style yeah hostile okay so at a certain point though? I think that what would really drew us together is We're both radio guys at heart. I think we're you know and I know I am I've grew up in radio television was more like a sidetrack for me. I never felt I Too tall, I'm too lanky and too geeky I have Tourette's there's a whole bunch of stuff that would make me not ideal for television My head isn't big enough to be really successful know about that Yeah You got you gotta have a huge not metaphorically speaking but physically a huge head That makes you successful on TV We already established that

30:30 well but it was our it was our I think are really art are mutual love of radio in the I love radio and the reason there's a lot of reasons I think you should be explored one is that fact that you don't have to its it's different it's different I mean yeah radio is and this is basically we're doing his radio needs some modern former radio podcasting on you only have to get dressed you don't have to ramp It's more than that, it's theater of the mind is what I like about it. Right and you can also write well the theater of the mind part which uh... is extremely valuable uh... I don't know my first broadcasting training was in Ray- I went to Foothill College for a while and when I was on the radio station

31:16 I just loved it. I produced a radio play and I did a lot of radio, I got a third class license which you had to have at one time. Yeah FCC license! I still have mine Nobody needs them anymore and uh... i've always liked uh... and very kind of sound not alike good quality sound which was always carping on the quality of this broadcast podcast um... even when i was doing that when i was doing um, Silicon spin at a tech TV. Uh, sound is always forgotten on television. Don't get me crap. But I made a big stink about it because it sounded so bad and then two of the sound engineers that were working there where I was their hero. Yeah, I know. Hero of the sound engineers because the sound engineers couldn't get anybody to listen to the fact that they're using cheap mics and, and C and they weren't doing notching or anything right? And so the sound, it sounded like a cheap ass production

32:12 Now the thing that's interesting is at MIT during the Negroponte era when they had a media lab, they had studied this to death and they had done double blind studies over and over again. It kept coming up if you take a group of people and have them watch a TV show with shitty sound then have them compare and then show another TV show with really great sound like Dolby 5 channel. They watch longer? No it's not just that if when they do an analysis they claim the pictures better. That's fantastic yeah makes sense, and I'm a sound nut although i've had a lot of trouble you know just because of the technology we've been using but now okay so now it's where it should be

32:56 I am way into creating a custom sound that gives you something that affects the listener in other ways. By the way, do you have your record button pushed? Oh yes, I do! So, you know we have compression I put noise gates on because III don't want to heat when I'm with either. I'm talking over this by the way I love silence when neither of us say anything The noise gates kick in it's completely silent if I didn't have those on then I'd hear your room You know I'd hear stuff rustling of papers and that's a to me an important part of our sound And I love it because in the beginning

33:35 certainly when we had a huge Skype delay people would be like oh you know I keep grabbing my iPod or my mp3 player because i think that the thing is stopped or it's crapped out but then you guys talk again and he gets people's attention silence is beautiful yeah, yeah. It does work and we have a moment of silence every so often but anyways to the two of us are kind of have a...we're.. we have amenable personalities So we're complementary. People say, well you work because you're the opposite. No, we are hardly the opposite. We are just complementary.

34:16 opposite they're just different and it's all worked out so we have a show that works very rare to do you know these kind of partnership somebody else asked the question uh... we go to this one um... who is the star of the show and of course that would be me exactly right on I thought i'd get that in before you gave the same line. I was wondering if we could actually say it at the same time like nah, It'll never work on Skype We'll never hit that at the same moment no but that would have been funny on stage so um yeah there's a Smothers Brothers kind of humor way There is no star of this show uh because

35:00 And there's no like sidekick, I mean it's not like there is a dominant character. Adam produces the show so he picks up the dominant side of production because he is the one who hits the buttons and says in the morning and he is the one who opens the show cause' he has all that gear But it just happens to be what you have to do if your producing. Because if I was producing, You'd be starting the clips on my cue. I would start everything myself and somebody has to produce. You can't have two producers. No, that would suck. What happened is a lot of people talk about this at least I've seen around like well

35:36 You know, it used to be... in fact we used to say the show that has We would open the show as a show that has no jingles No sound effects. No agenda And then I think you... because people need to know That John is the kind of guy and this is... I really appreciate this by the way Who will see something on television or find a crazy documentary Or something that your generally interested in and its often I think stuff that you don't even Believe in or care about yourself, but he'll burn you a DVD and make it nice label on it And I'm always amazed by the labels. It's always nice art and its lips You know as labeled beautifully that way if the feds busted they look at it They say oh this bus this isn't a bootleg this guy's got to be the real deal But that's not like movies. It's you know it's documentaries. It's different shows that he seen and you handed me a copy of The Family Guy

36:31 with the episode Weenie and the Butt. And that really got the g- because again, we're both radio freaks and we figured this would just be funny to do and it kind of stuck. I think that'll be fun... That's also where In The Morning came from by the way. It's such a take off on The Morning Zoo format which we both love and hate at the same time Loathe now is so old fashioned But when you listen to this, you can understand why radio guys get off on Weenie and the Butt. It's two minutes this... Oh that's the Hulu pre-roll! Watch your favorites anytime for free. Hulu. Hey everybody it's Weenie and the Butt here live at The Quahog Airshow we're all ready for the Weenies Sound Alike contest I don't know but I don't think they can say my catchphrase because they no funny

37:23 Oh, there it is! And if you think you can say that just like Weenie here... You could win $97.1 for the cool weekend ahead. We-we-witty at the butt! In the morning, cool weekends. FM. Witty! And a butt and welcome back. Uh excuse me I gotta find a lost kid can i use your mic? That's what she said. Whoa you got buttslam! Listen I could really use a hand here that's what he said. BUTTSLAM!!!

38:08 That's Manic Monkey on 97.1! Cool, weekends in the morning! Oh weekend law... In the morning, in the morning On the radio Give me that Stewie Griffin will you please report to the radio booth? Stewie Griffin Hey that's quite a voice you've got there You ever think about doing radio Well, uh... I listen to a lot of radio. Peter and Lois leave the radio on when they go out so i feel like somebody's home. Well here is my card! Call me if you're interested Hey okay we've got our first contestant Let's hear Weenie's catchphrase! Dan O'Farney

38:46 I think we have a wiener! And that's Dicky the Punchline Donkey on 97.1. Dicky the Punchline Donkey, on Cool97.1 Cooool weekend On the radio In the morning FM Cool WQHG Cool Weekend in the morning On 97.1 It's one of the greatest moments in Family Guy history. It really is and you know they produced all that stuff, and they must have had a ball because it really was like that in the 90s, 80s and 90s radio was absolutely...in the morning on the radio. No content! 0 content! All filler And I used to hate it we'd have to do liner cards Here read this hit the jingle

39:36 Alright, $100.1 in cash for you on Z-100! Z-100 serving the universe! So we kind of decided... We didn't decide it just happened most of this show by the way for people who ask all these questions It's really an evolution Yeah There is no meeting We don't have meetings No In fact if there is a rule We generally agree not to talk about what we're going to talk about because yeah, we know that what will happen is we'll start talking about it and then we bring it up on the show and then It always suck. There's like Yes, like has been rehearsed there's no tension there right? And you know so So anyway said this evolved but would happen with the dinner course you rented it Jeff Smith

40:23 And so we ended up getting a bunch of these jingles and things which some people complain about but the fact of the matter is it paces the show well. It is a mockery of the other model, but that's kind of nice... I don't know what it is? The atmosphere is improved by it. That in-the morning thing is used as a rim shot generally or should be and it is often. So I say something funny which is very common on the show, and then he hits the rim shot. Or if you go off on a tangent... So we have a bunch of these things which we use and now that we had a couple questions... By the way that's an old radio trick for a segue! It's really

41:05 It helps transition the listener's brain from one segment to the next. It jars you for a moment there... And if you listen to our last show, Show 200 Adam was going off the deep end on some topic. It was way at least two or three minutes over due to stop it and I told him to play the Adam Curry's Pet Peeve of the Day jingle which i knew would transition, you know, stop him in his tracks. That's right! It also stops me. You're right yeah works perfectly that way so here is from one our listeners The show you do today is very different from the show when you first started e.g personal anecdotes are gone no they're not

41:47 Audio clips and jingles are now prevalent. Originally less than an hour a week is now four hours a week, and listeners are asked to contribute cash. Is the show where you want it to be or are you planning more changes? The show just evolved so we don't plan anything although we do things individually that may or may not stick." In fact if anything um... We're always trying- It's more like When I find something, and by the way we'll get into this but a lot of people send me stuff. That's how i get a lot of good information either that is good or I will find something else that is good that relates to it. I'm thinking oh man I am going to blow John away with this he's gonna love when I play this I can just hear what he's gonna say...that's what I'm thinking

42:34 Yeah, there's that and the other time they did curiously though we both tend to be on the same stories which is kind of interesting but we had a show I can't remember was about six or seven shows ago where you had actually collected the clips that were all complimentary to my yeah discussion and it was like because i didn't get some of these clips that I wanted. You had them! And I actually thought that was the most unbelievable show we've ever done because it looked rigged Yeah, it really flowed very nicely and that happens from time to time But yeah I'm on board with the evolution. There's nothing is absolutely nothing is planned I have my own things John has his things sometime we might send each other a link from time to time and Even then usually the link doesn't get discussed because I always saw well whatever you know this over

43:25 But we have a couple of common interests of things that are funny, that we think are funny. Usually they have to do with mainstream media I think that's the most fun is when we rag on mainstream media and pull it apart, and simultaneously open people's eyes as to what's really going on in television. You know that may have been triggered by the Weenie-in-the-Bud episode of The Family Guy because once we started mocking that model, we started looking at the media bitching about it generally... On a higher plane than I believe the people at Fox have ever thought of

44:00 and we started, we realized that it was actually entertaining ourselves and we knew it was very valuable information. And then we had the time... It's not like anyone can't do this but most people work for a living if you're to have a job at Goldman Sachs and you're there till uh... seven at night, and then you have to get in early or whatever. And then you have the drink all day which seems to be what the job is about. And watch strippers! You don't have time to go in start digging around these stories to find one missing element or kind of crazy connection but you just haven't got time to do it. The fact that mainstream media doesn't do it

44:41 is just makes you wonder. So I will say that there were two seminal moments when we had our equivalent of a meeting and the one is when we spoke on the phone said, You know what? This thing is real this is really catching on let's do 2 shows a week that I do remember and that was like well you know something happening here this is really special We should just do it I even recall you saying, okay. I've got to switch this around. I've got cranky geeks on Wednesday I mean This is when we started to really integrate the show into our daily schedule into our lives because actual work does go into it I don't know about you but every single day Here's my system

45:27 I have labels set up in my email, like Gmail labels. And whenever I come across something that I think is interesting or that someone sends me or that I find, I'll email it and tag it with that label so I have a label now for show 201 and then the night before the show... That is if I haven't found anything that showed up that I really needed to dig into which of course can take hours of extra work investigation then you know I sit down and I start to start to Assemble everything into a huge outline of stuff and then I have to read everything, you know Look at all the YouTube clips. And in the meantime whenever I can without Destroying my relationship. Um, I'm watching C-SPAN C-SPAN one two and three

46:17 I'll skim by HLN, CNN CNBC MSNBC just to see what they're doing. See if I find anything funny I find myself watching less of Fox these days is just too annoying for me But C-SPAN I find to be Just I love it so much. To me that is actual entertainment and of course C-SPAN has done a great job with their video library because all you have to do is remember a line that someone said which is typically what I'm looking for, you go to the archive, you type in search transcripts, it will search the transcripts and come up with that actual piece of video and cue the video to the spot where the line is

46:57 I mean it's amazing what they've done there. It is a very valuable resource and you know the thing is on the weekend they have this, what I really like, I mean I like the regular C-SPAN but on the weekend we had this book TV yeah They bring these various writers in and many of them have written crazy books one way or another right wing left wing everything And they sit him down with a guy who really has good conversationalist or sometimes somebody that's in their same field of study And they talk to him for an hour or more, usually an hour. It's like a whole hour and it's basically books on tape! You get pretty much the perspective you're looking for. You find everything out from this person. It's just amazing...it's much better than any talk show Charlie Rose or any of these commercial things. What is nice about that is I kind of know what you are watching

47:46 So I know that i don't have to and we, I must say from time to time it happens every other week probably you'll either send me sometimes I send you an SMS a text message saying dude C-SPAN 3 now right? And then we'll both sit down and watch something at the same time. This has happened to me that I've been in the car and I get like uh c-span 2 now! I'm like oh crap but luckily have the c-span iPhone app and I listen to the audio It's sickening We're like...we're like the guys from The Muppets It's a little crazy. Yeah, it is But it's not as though you know and the funny thing is I don't think when we first began the show that we're gonna get so heavily embedded into current events to this extreme like somebody says You know your show was about you guys going out to dinner And you know in this yeah? There was a lot of moments and will still discuss wine and food occasion when it comes up

48:34 And, but we don't... instead of sitting around talking about our meal that people can live vicariously through our steaks and cabernet. That pretty much kind of just went by the wayside because it wasn't I don't know if it was... Well, the audience also drove that. And the only way to measure that is by feedback you get and the growth of the audience and it was pretty clear what people were interested in they were interested on our take of current events we're interested in our unveiling, if you will this purely because of our experience are unveiling of the bullshit and the hmmm.. I would say the deception mainstream media

49:17 And I think it's helped a lot of people see things in a different light and that's what the audience wants. John, you and I are both in the audience business at the end of the day Yeah, in fact it is. You can tell by the way people send you notes I mean yeah every once in a while somebody that was there from the original show and they kind of like the fact that we have a wine tip once in awhile which I can still do or there's some observation made about trends in food That's fine which now different than me complaining on earlier show The Show 200 about raw milk issues that's a kind of a foodie thing but the point is is that the people there really got jacked up in the ones are

49:58 pretty much financing the show because they send in big contributions and say wow we like it did do a u deconstruct these stories that way you term apart the way you show us me is aware of where you show me that this that i'm being led astray people as very valuable for people to have some sense of uh... understanding what they're being bombarded with so let look at when didn't restart asking for donations that began are sometime um... in 2009, I believe we semi-seriously may have done something in late 2008. And the only reason I can say this because I can look at the PayPal account since we did it as a PayPal thing and we did it at the beginning with trepidation not complete trepidation but you may have had more than I do because I've always felt there was a model

50:55 of direct support. And I was thinking about this, like have to keep thinking of different arguments because you know the ones that do it the best are public broadcasting and... You're right that's what it was we were talking about that and then we were talking about PBS and I said why did those dickheads who are clearly shills not all in all the time but Why do they get away with this and why do people support that? It appears that we have a large number of people who like us the same way they either currently do or used to like public broadcasting. Right, and public broadcasting also has the issue with the fact that they have commercials and you know we really played up a couple clips that we developed

51:42 We found about you know them admitting that there's under let's play that one because we can't play that enough this was the president of PBS NPR was then PR. Yes, NPR being asked about Underwriters. Yeah, about their underwriters and how the state of affairs and here was our answer Okay move it on to money How are NPR's corporate underwriting revenues holding up in the recession? And what about foundation grants? Two different stories. Underwriting is down, it's down for everybody I mean this is the area that is most down for us is in sponsorship underwriting advertising call it whatever you want

52:30 Right, call it whatever you want and then I think we started to open people's eyes. This is kind of the way when we start to open people's eyes about how it really worked and people like wow you know Monsanto sponsors this Archer Daniel Midland sponsors that and like well okay so how about the objective reporting about those companies? Well there doesn't seem to be a helluva lot of it And I think a lot of people, this is maybe how it really started John and i'm just vague on it but as people start to send us like $100 and say well this what I would have normally spent on PBS the national treasure. I want to spend that on you! And I think that's where we said oh wait a minute There's something here. It is an evolutionary show and like with anything in evolution, just a model it is very difficult to put your finger on the spot I mean we can do the weenie and the butt spot that had some influence so we can point right to it but the rest of this is always vague because its just kind of evolved We were actually very... being open source which was another idea that we decided to go with

53:30 In other words, we don't care if you steal the show. I actually do remember...I was in New York with Mickey and it was winter...it must have been winter 2009 and I remember I called you and I said hey this model that we've been kind of not really working on but has evolved seems to be working We should really go for this! We should really try And at that point I think boy I would love to do this full time I would love to do nothing else but this. You know, essentially if you're doing it... It's like the Max Headroom thing where they had the direct numbers. The show was going downhill and the numbers would go down and you could see it in real time. You can see if we are doing a right thing or if we are doing a good job

54:30 uh... it directly is not as if you have its value for value you can't go off the deep and we can turn the show into like an analysis of sixties music and that's all we talk about for two hours and expect to get any money from anyone so we're only did doing in at the same time we don't obviously don't want to be pushed around by the audience we have to lead them uh... as a as opposed to just doing whatever they want So you have to have some leadership. This is like a company that, you know... You don't focus group everything. Focus grouping takes your... It shows what they used to like but if you want to move the show in new directions or try different things, you actually have to experiment with it but you will get that feedback! You're gonna get pushbacks and now this sucks

55:15 don't do that again and you know, then the donations go way down. So it's an interesting tightrope walk but its direct support from the listeners and people have come up with all kinds of different complaints about it it. Well, you know why do I have to spend $100 because I can go see a movie for 50 bucks and they put a lot of money into making those movies and you guys don't put any money into making this show and there's these kind of weird complaints about production costs that I've been getting every once in awhile and my...I never had a real good retort for it except well its different like your paying for books on tape we're really competing with books on tape were not competing with Avatar

55:59 And then I started thinking about... We're also competing with radio, but you know radio you get 22 minutes an hour of action. Well less! Radio is terrible! 17 minutes of programming and 13 minutes of commercials You know make your choice Right, and how much is your time worth? So I've used that argument but then I also found another one which I really haven't exploited on the show. But you know because people do this production well it costs a lot of money to make a movie What about a novel? Novels are one of the first in...one of the first businesses that are directly user supported Good point You buy a book Good point And you read the book and you know you already paid your money although course unlike our show The book you pay in advance for the book

56:42 and you pay in advance for the Avatar movie, you pay in advance for a lot of these things. We don't do that we're more of the church model where if you don't like to sermon you don't have put anything into coffers but it's the same thing books are user supported there is no ads in a book. And once you get over the personal hurdle coming from mainstream whereby by way we hate commercials I've always hated commercials. That's where the GVR is such a godsend, but as a creator of content like I gotta hit the commercial break and wait for the commercials... Oh yeah they're terrible you got to interrupt your flow watch one of these shows anyone listening this on Fox or any place else and they get somebody in a really heated debate but there are no hard break Yeah I've seen this with Tom Brokaw and then the president

57:35 And you know and they got some some guy screaming in his ear counting down the commercial and the president's actually just saying something really interesting It's annoying. It's very very annoying as a creator to go through that but then Yeah, it was kind of weird At least for me it was You know you feel embarrassed To ask people for money and there is a psychological hurdle But once you're over that, it's easy sailing. I had some pushback from the family It's like, and I won't say who but they know who they are. Yeah the commies. How can you bring yourself to begging for money for this? How can you do that? Can't you get some advertisers? I don't want any advertisers if i can get money directly from the listeners! Why would I want that? Yeah it screws up the product. It just ruins the product. The thing is most of people have not... We've taken it.. One of the reasons we do this show and asking for money in support donations

58:39 is because, whatever you want to call it. It's because it gets us closer to the audience who has actually a good close connection You know what your getting for your money. It just makes you feel more honest And there's another thing we did which I know was my initiative and I think that helped us in number of ways Is that we decided to stream live when we do the show And that did a number of things. One it gave, at least me I appreciate the instant feedback loop of the chat room and I can't watch it all the time but sometimes punchline will come through and they're always on 25 second delay so its interesting how that works

59:20 But a punchline will come through or someone might drop a link in there. But I personally, even if I didn't have the chat room just knowing that people are listening live at that moment gives me an energy that...I've always loved doing things live. I'm not a big fan of recording. If I have to record something it's got be live-to-tape like I do daily source code, like you do Cranky Geeks although that streamed live as well now. I just want it live, live, live because then you can leave all the warts in there and all the crazy shit. And that actually makes it more interesting when its not highly produced and it also forces us to kind of...I think before we were doing it live its like hey what time should we do this show? Well I got this, I got that now its like my schedule is Thursday morning, I get up at 630

1:00:11 I get up and from then on out it's no agenda. Sunday morning, 630, I get up from then on out its' no agenda." Yeah, I know I had the same thing you said but occasionally we've had to move the show to Wednesday night It hasn't...we haven't have that in a long time No but were gonna have it next month because I have a travel thing that is interrupting both shows Which brings me too Oh wait let me finish one more thing about donations One of things when we went into donation thing We started asking for money Direct support from listeners This has never really been, I've been figuring this out because it's a form of marketing that interests me but one of the things that people say well you can't make it, I'm sure your starving to death and why don't you get an advertiser they always say. No one except us

1:00:56 And I believe me, they haven't seen anything close and there may be some religious programming that i'm not aware of. But nobody doing podcasting professional level good quality podcasting as we're doing has taken it serious. Yeah We are seriously, you know we have programs. We came up with the night thing. We've got a different kinds of this. We also don't call it a tip jar and we don't work for tips. Do this...we're seriously doing this and it's like take it or leave it This is the model were working with It's going to be a lot better. The product you're gonna get is a lot better if you get anything out of it, contribute. I mean just the way... this is new! Do you feel the show serves as more than just a source of entertainment? If yes what do you hope to accomplish? Well first of all let me say from my perspective I absolutely see this as a form of entertainment

1:01:51 I hope everyone is entertained by our show. They have to be! If you're not entertained, we have blown it. There has to be a moment where... and entertainment comes in different ways It can be funny, it can be dramatic, it can be sad, it can be frightening whatever emotion button were hitting, it has to be entertainment otherwise why listen? That would just be boring. I remember somebody sent us a link, said well there's a couple people that do a show like yours and they sent us a link to somebody's show that was very much like ours they deconstructed the news a bit uh they tended not to have our perspectives but you know they did a fairly decent job and it was so dull

1:02:29 they had no it was just like this academic drew you can't get you know it's just that the modern audience is the modern audience and in no matter how intellectual you might think you are, you will be better served by someone who feeds you information in a way that keeps your attention. And to keep your attention you have to have an element of entertainment our personalities generally speaking I think are the entertainment Well, also and I've only had this one... Oh my humor of course. Yes obviously! I've only had this one other time in my career sometimes you just find these magical combinations and it's not by design you can't train for it you can't go to school for it It just happens and you have these combos that just work

1:03:16 And this is one of those that just work. In fact, my biggest fear now and I know what yours is John but my biggest fear you're gonna roll over and die one day and the show will be over! And I know your... I'll give it 10 years at least. You're afraid to go crazy and leave Mickey and go off the deep end? That's my thinking yeah, I think that can happen any minute Our Pledge asks on Twitter Mr. DeVarque your campaign seems to have a momentum of runaway freight train. There's the meme Why are you so popular? I think we answered that question just now. Also the No Agenda chat folks wanted the moderator should be invited, they've donated a lot of their time well they're invited to listen to this show when were done with it Next time maybe we can do something more for them This show is uh... The first one in a long time that were not streaming live but also this is um..a different type of show where just kind of So let's answer the second part of that question though What do you hope to accomplish? What do you hope to accomplish John with this show

1:04:17 I think at some... and this is gonna be, this sounds really, this is not going to sound good. Because it makes you sound like there's a kind of a... well you'll see. Let them eat cake! No no, I think that we honestly believe that were doing serious public service to bring people, generally people that are listening to the show. I've always believed this with me even when i'm a writer People say well what do you... When I am writing like in PC Magazine was running all those years and inside track I always had a vision of what was I trying to accomplish? What I was trying to accomplish because I knew it would get me more readers. It's selfish reason by the way! I knew it'd get me more readers my concept was if somebody read my column

1:05:04 and they're working in a cubicle, and my column was designed to give them an edge over the guy in the other cubicle who wasn't reading my column. And I've always believed that this is your value proposition, it's a phrase I hate but one of things that always... It's always on the back of mind, I'm trying to give people some edge over the people who aren't paying attention to me." Oh no! This is basically we want you, the audience to be able to get laid because you sound smarter listening to us. Exactly! I mean at the end of the day isn't that it? Or a job or promotion...or anything, it can enrich your life because you had that one little bit of information and someone went oh well that guy said something interesting she has an interesting take on stuff

1:05:49 And for me, it's that maybe it just that For you know if I'll tell you what it is. This is I think I was born to do this I think everyone was born to do something and It took me a long time with a lot of detours and I've been counting down the hits and I've you know I pretended to run companies With varying degrees of success but but basically riding off of fame and fortune which in itself is interesting to have a perspective from that angle. But this, I love this! I so love it and people say man you work really hard we have house guests and they'll be like my god Adam's always on that thing and he's editing and he's recording stuff yeah i love it and its not doesn't even feel like work. I LOVE THIS!! I love what we do. I love what I DO!!!

1:06:40 And that's also completely selfish, but if it gets you laid... No the good works generally are selfish at some level because you you know if you think your help in somebody sometimes it's selfish to get a good feeling from and that's a selfish thing although it wouldn't be defined as such by anybody in the right mind so let's talk about the open source model for just away before we do that since you brought can abroad at on a new bring in Simon Smiths question from Twitter which is when you we offer relationship advice on no agenda my wife doesn't react well to the hookers and blow angle really she should try it what does that mean I don't know some people just

1:07:20 You know, we do get... I hear a certain thing. Two things I hear one is people don't like the hookers and blow because they put some people off Okay, that's just who we are I guess and we find it amusing. You know? I don't think John...I've never done blow and I certainly have never done the combination of hookers and blow at the same time So so you admit to doing hookers yeah absolutely like you've never done hookers I Don't discuss these things in public By the way the hooker situation is a cycle

1:07:59 and the 30s, the 70's lots of hookers. And so we're going into a new cycle of hookers You probably were starting around 2012. Let me put it this way, I am not against hookers. There's a lot of bad stuff that happens in the sex industry but there are a lot of women who support their children and themselves and if thats what they want to do then it can be done in a safe manner power to you! I grew up in Amsterdam so I saw it working quite well thank you The problem is when its driven underground That's a whole separate show

1:08:35 So now what was your right? Now, what was the second one people say well I try to help people listen to this show But then they hear the opening and the whole in-the-morning thing. They think it's some BS Top 40 you know weenie in the butt show and they don't listen And I I don't know what we can do about that nothing but I actually like it because You have once you get over that hump Then then you can gets kind of sucked in so No, that's also a mask. That's probably important. Can you imagine like some meeting going on at the NSA or the CIA and they're like yeah we've got to get rid of these guys I hear bad things about that Kareem Dvorak let's listen to this show and they hear this whole in-the-morning bit

1:09:17 that can't be anything definitely puts it puts people are maybe echelon you know echelons is sniffing i show and the like all this cannot give a year to be just as we said the guy goes into amazing these guys are there they're subversive these two guys and against really well let me hear what did let me hear the show in the midst of playing with their opening Get the hell out of my office you crackpot. By the way, that is now that you mention it I purposely love and i don't know who came up with a moniker but i love being called The Crack Pot because it is the ultimate shield The Ultimate Because some of this stuff we say and I think we get pretty close to the truth in a lot of issues I would rather people say he's just conspiracy theorist He's just a crack pot because that will save me from getting killed

1:10:11 We've talked about this. I think it's a good theory and a likable theory, but we shot to track down the guy who coined crackpot in buzzkill. It was an email that I got. mentioned it and you thought it was great to be called the crackpot. Yeah, I love that! And so then our artwork started to have a Crack Pot and Buzzkill put on it so we just reiterated the whole thing We should also now please let's move into that open source nature of this show So two amazing things which are part of the model A part of the openness and freedom and support through donations is we don't own anything

1:10:51 We don't well, I mean, I guess technically if you really looked at it we do but a microphone Yeah But the show is whatever it is and we have people cutting this up splicing it putting it into all kinds of new making Transming tones making trance music out of it, but we also have people who create things So a lot of our jingles by the way We could use a lot more and you'd love them But we are very critical. We don't just use everything people send in A lot of people said and stuff that we just feel is not good enough We have artwork and we have two main artists sir Randy Asher and Sir Paul T. And they you know these guys have jobs, they do stuff whatever who knows what they do? They spend their time they create artwork for us from almost every single show now there's no agendaart.com where people can drop art and we've used the art from different artists if anything after every show people should know we have a discussion so the first thing we say is what do we think of the show

1:11:55 And there's been a couple times we said, well that sucked. And were pretty brutal with each other although John never agrees with my criticism of him If I say you sucked on that he is like no that was really good and if you criticize me your usually right and i just take it like a man So we talk about that and then we talk about Yeah essentially its post mortem that most publications do Then what are we called the show? So we think about what will get the best SEO results, what will people be searching. We want all those accidental hits and then we have to choose from the artwork and that is sometimes the hardest part because it's so good! We don't wanna you know have one guy put off over the other guy because they both sent in something great... That's a hard choice sometimes Yeah it's amazing And there are other artists waiting on the wings that contribute on occasional basis We have some tremendous support

1:12:53 from these guys and then you know Asher set up his own t-shirt shop in a through I don't know what mechanism and we helped him out. Noagendershuff.com Stuff, yeah And we have all these guys and we've encouraged it and we don't have our name trademarked somebody came up with an email the other day that said well i think i got a good promotional idea Why don't you trademark in the morning and then every time you hear anybody saying it on any show whatsoever, send them a cease-and-desist order and then they'll promote you. And you get free publicity! Although funny... It's actually a funny idea but it is not our model at all. No, no, it sounds like work and that's one thing we hate

1:13:31 We don't want to do any work. Yeah, we actually don't want to do anything! We just want to do this show...we don't wanna have any extra work..we don't wanna do any you know extra promotion stuff that involves leaving the computer How are we going to interrupt right there and talk about some of the things that we talked about on that show? And then also, we're going maybe do a little bit of reiteration of what our commentary was two years later where we corrected ourselves because after two years from 2010-2012... A lot changed. ...a lot changed and we're gonna discuss a little bit of that and then get back to the show but let's talk about a couple of things I wrote down some notes on this Can i say something first? Sure! I want to thank you for putting up with my shit

1:12:53 from these guys and then you know Asher set up his own t-shirt shop in a through I don't know what mechanism and we helped him out. Noagendershuff.com Stuff, yeah And we have all these guys and we've encouraged it and we don't have our name trademarked somebody came up with an email the other day that said well i think i got a good promotional idea Why don't you trademark in the morning and then every time you hear anybody saying it on any show whatsoever, send them a cease-and-desist order and then they'll promote you. And you get free publicity! Although funny... It's actually a funny idea but it is not our model at all. No, no, it sounds like work and that's one thing we hate

1:13:31 We don't want to do any work. Yeah, we actually don't want to do anything! We just want to do this show...we don't wanna have any extra work..we don't wanna do any you know extra promotion stuff that involves leaving the computer How are we going to interrupt right there and talk about some of the things that we talked about on that show? And then also, we're going maybe do a little bit of reiteration of what our commentary was two years later where we corrected ourselves because after two years from 2010-2012... A lot changed. ...a lot changed and we're gonna discuss a little bit of that and then get back to the show but let's talk about a couple of things I wrote down some notes on this Can i say something first? Sure! I want to thank you for putting up with my shit

1:14:18 We cut the whole middle part stay No, you know what? I mean get them. You were insulting in some yes, and then I apologize for that but The one point you said yeah we're talking about What is our greatest fear like oh, I'm afraid that you know you're gonna drop dead one day won't have a show And then you and and you were afraid of I would leave Mickey and go crazy So you had part of it, right? Yeah. You let him make you think she went crazy Wow No But I listen like wow man, you know you certainly certainly in two in the earlier part of the Of the sequence or shows that is no agenda You put up a lot with a lot of my crap and I appreciate it. You stuck me you hung in there Oh

1:15:08 Well, I knew he had something going and then you had this episode 100 where I wanted to quit Yeah, you actually wanted to quit a couple times. How stupid was that? No, I've got a couple of time Hunter by the way was the deuce club show we did very well We have a lot of support And we're changing our Club structure so we can some people gonna all be deduced club members will be part of it the club yeah with their figure out somehow a way to put that together shortly. Let's talk about a few of the things that we discussed in the interim, and one of them was show prep. You had a different way doing show prep in 2010 you changed it a little bit in 2012 which then you talked about now your show prep is completely different uh...to an extreme I'd say what is it now? Oh okay yes that's a good question

1:16:01 Dave Jones, who is one of our producers who lives in Alabama. He's a dude named Ben for I think tax preparation firm as small or smallish firm and he and I were we're kind of working on Dave Weiner was the big outliner guy besides you know working together on podcasting but it's always been about organizing information and outline. I'm naturally drawn to the idea but organizing information in Outliner with expanding, you know trees and you can see what's underneath it. And Dave Jones just on his own time and this has been going on for I think we're now in our fifth year have been building the system which we call the Freedom Controller which is open source you can download it run on your own server or you could do anything because you can replicate everything we're doing its you know it has documentation too and updates

1:16:53 where we have this template for each show that has a lot of the initial things that are in there, but also there's an entire system. Whenever I see an article that I think is interesting or if you send me a link to an article that is interesting, I have a bookmarklet on my phone and any browser I have and it will place that article into an outline format and also save an offline copy a stripped down kind of like, what is that? An abstract. Well it's just without formatting. It has everything in there including the images will save all of that

1:17:34 And what's cool about it is, you know I set up all these topics and then i can drag and drop all the sound files in that we use after the fact. And pretty much the show prep is already to show notes so when were done often were still doing our post-show postmortem and our gossip and then pretty much hit publish and it turns the show notes, all the stuff that we used into the or the show prep into the show notes. It's a dynamite system! For me at least on the production side... Really completes the whole product that we're making and because it's all structured data. We've had these great developers who have been able to Create apps, but also the search search dot na show notes calm All of that flows very easily very automatically into anything because of the format that is in That's the main the main difference It also saves me hours and hours Of time I can even

1:18:34 If you send me an email, and I did want to talk about that for a minute. If you send me an email, I put it into a folder on my iMap email system And then when I'm doing my show prep usually the evening before the show... ...I can hit import and it'll import all of the emails that I've saved which just have text or something interesting someone said. And I can go in edit out any e-mail address or anything I want to So everything flows into this one system And it's really dynamite. I think that every podcast should be using it, quite honestly. Well on the night before what do you do? You say show prep this is kind of show prep Right so the night before... well there's a night before and morning before and I don't have to get up as early as you but I get up at 7 and the show starts 11 for me So I have all this time The night before thats when I go crazy just getting as many clips recording clips doing as much as I can

1:19:32 Which will also be intermingled with if I have an analysis of something. So, if there's a document, if there is legislation or something else...I'll really spend a lot of time the evening before. I typically don't go to bed before 1 or 2 AM It was a short night and then get up in the morning so that clips are kind of all ready to go And then I start organizing all of the topics into the familiar subheadings of different topics that we discuss And then just before the show, you know I Organized the clips into little folders. You yeah you send your clips? I don't listen to him I just drop them right in I Don't even really look at him at all if you say you decided not to listen to my clips. I've never listened for the purposes of extemporaneous discussion surprised I mean Yeah with our whole theory

1:20:23 Think we talked about it on and we do what we do now the whole theory is and this is based on a lot of different things We both experience Is the pre-interview when the rehearsal yeah if you do that like this? Yeah, life is drained from a show like this. If we rehearsed So it's done as a performance Performance art has done like a like improv And a lot of people are surprised by it because we're so good working together, which is the reason I think you like working with me. Is that I am fairly good...I'm not as good as I could be at cuing you. So I'd be saying something and it's a cue for a clip, you'll be looking for the clip. And then I say...and then you can't believe what he said! Boom! The clip starts playing and that's all this engineering talent that you have in your ability to do that is why it surprises people we talked about this off-the air

1:21:17 about how we do have a lot of radio people that listen. They think we have a whole staff and we have messaging lights and you're starting clips or I've no idea, but I want my morning show to sound like that as well. Good luck with that buddy. That's not going to happen. So it's all single handed which is and slick. We do drop the ball occasionally in something or I just have to stop the clip because they didn't set it up completely. And Adams jumping the gun and sometimes your ridicule when there wasn't one there Or you'll be cute or you'll be talking about a clip and I'm like, what is it? But then instead of digital it will be... You play the wrong clip on occasion. You just misspell clips sometimes. Well no not sometimes. Often!

1:22:01 I have a tendency to when I'm doing the clips, you just type something in that I think i'm hitting the right keys and off it goes. And then they never edit so he goes into this... You know something because it might be I have your clips alphabetically! The story about Jordan could end up as YJP Jadon, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. S T Y or I've learned I've learned to work s o r y some learn to work around it but i know that's why in fact if you hadn't learned to work around and I probably put more effort into making the spelling correct there's something else that has changed in the interim since our last uh since 200 6 podcasting has seen a resurgence and

1:22:46 Yeah, the mainstream media. Yes what I think is I think about this and I'm sure you do too But it's almost as if the mainstream media And the broadcast media the radio people for sure have said somebody finally came into a meeting and said You think that these guys could actually? You know replace us because they don't have really the overhead we have right well We can do podcasting to that's right The Union said oh no Oh No So they start doing podcasting and all of a sudden, they're interested. And so they write articles about it. Yeah Yeah, of course we're generally even though we're I'd say pioneers having going on our eighth year We never get mentioned in these articles. No mention each other Oh PBS has got a podcast about about gemstones yeah well But the big difference and this is something that we just naturally understood and have done from day one radio or television any type of linear media

1:23:43 They always do 59 minutes and 58 seconds. It's going to be exactly an hour that, you know... Everything is back-timed, you know? Bo we're gonna talk this long." In fact if you look at scripts even for podcasts that NPR does it's the script that has the seconds next to it so each line is a second. Right! You know what I mean? And we don't have to worry about the next show. We don't have to worry about hitting a sponsor break, no hard breaks, no news if we can go as long as when we could start on top of the hour now and we can start whenever we want and traffic on the eight or yes or the threes or sixes and we take it that we Have from the get-go

1:24:25 Seen that I think is completely liberating like oh, I could you know. I can just talk until the either of these is over yeah well until we both know that it's time or Bore you know yours boring when we call each other You call me out more often than I call you out, but you know it's good And I like the raw nature of it. We've always felt this, that people are so tired of the formulaic way that programming is put together... We mock it every once in a while we catch a Democracy Now! where they guy says well you know the worst thing about this is that they're gonna have a meeting tomorrow and then Bob sorry we're done for today talk to ya later. Sorry yeah got to go just when it's getting interesting exactly

1:25:10 This happened in writing media too, as a columnist. When you're writing for print generally speaking you write to a number so they want 650 words and try to get 635 to 650 maybe and they cut out stuff put something in or they just pad but there's a spot there that thing is going to appear it only so much And so you have to write the numbers. So you do, and there's different styles. You can 500-word essays, 650 word essays, 750 is 1200 they're all pretty standard. After years and year of doing it in your brain it's astonishing to do. You can go right to 650 and stop and then you do a word count boom 650. Well with the internet that ended

1:26:04 Again, it's liberating because now you maybe wanna ramble a little bit. So it goes to 752 with these different numbers. It could be anything that you wanted to because there is no real page layout that you have to worry about. I was amused by one of my editors at...I think he was at PC Computing for number of years, John Zilber who became a PR guy later but he used to be one of these guys and I think this is the drawback he would start writing and because there was no end, he would just go crazy. He'd write 7000 words on something. Well but this is also a problem and so if you look at the intercept which is the 250 million dollar wordpress blog from Pierre Drive My Car Omnia Meteor

1:26:43 They don't have editors and it goes on so long that you just your eyes glaze over like, I can't read anymore. I'm so tired of it and we don't allow that to happen because we stop each other either naturally or just subtly when going into another topic We are editing each other at the same time in real-time That said when we did show 200.5 which people have heard or heard half of so far We do discuss, oh the show an hour and a half. I think we ended it with saying something like, oh I knew it! We couldn't go under an hour and a half or two hours or something that's like a joke now

1:27:24 Yeah, why is that? Well I think we do deeper digs. I think that's part of it the digs are deeper on the material The show i think there was a shallowness to some of those earlier shows when we'd come up with stuff and it wasn't as interesting And that's also just what would...the amount of material available on the internet That has helped us tremendously people publishing stuff everywhere It's great We have each of us have our little list of things you want to talk about On each show And many times complimentary, sometimes not. It drags on and it goes too long. We're shooting for $245k. That's what we try but I can imagine five years from now making tons of money. We're going to go to sleep for a moment! We'll be right back. In five hours... No that's not gonna happen.

1:28:14 Although I say we may have decided before We were going over three hours on a lot of shows. Yeah, that was I felt that when people were gonna listen out long and It was dragging on and sometimes the material could have been cut down with just certain things We didn't need to talk about so here is the challenge in a way but also it's a benefit um we are episodic and This is why, even though we I think discourage it mainly people want to hear all of what we've said in a previous episode so that because we do reference things and i'm getting better at saying hold on a second let's just explain what this is also for ourselves. Right? I do that too!

1:28:58 I've gotten this, where it's at. I've gotten better at it." Just to stop and say okay this is where this comes from... We're talking about something from a year ago. I mean we had to re-discuss the Benghazi thesis which was a failed kidnapping attempt. Right. Other things that we have come up with over the years in fact there was something in show 200.5 where we mentioned Hilton Knowlton behind the whole farming thing and I forgot all about that connection. Well, let's go over some more stuff on the list here. You made a big deal about me handing you DVDs that were highly produced and very pretty and we don't do that anymore. With labels now we don't do that now. That's done. Well, we also don't see each other anymore Right? We don't see each other anymore even though I'm going to head down there Oh, don't threaten me! We used talk about three shows a week and we actually...I think it was last year we did a third show for the purposes of another vacation

1:29:56 And so we did a show, if you remember. And we were so tired from doing that third show that there's no way... Now when we're doing an hour and a half, we thought it might be a good way to divide it up but it would give us three, four-and-a-half hours a week of material over three shows but it turns out that when we're talking about something, we can't keep it down to an hour and a half It's just not possible. So the three show things fell by the wayside, it was never... It's just not a good idea because you don't have enough even the Friday Saturday before we do the Sunday show is tight but that was chosen specifically because Friday is when the throwaway news is put out there that you're really not supposed to know but its put out there because they need to publish something and thats why I personally catch a lot of stuff on the Friday afternoon news cycle if you will

1:30:43 And then I thought it was funny we had a discussion of the artists who at the time were Randy Asher and Paul T, the dominant artist. This is during the era when we actually would allow our pictures of the two of us to be on the artwork which now is banned because this just wasn't good. The art has really become conceptual. It's much more advanced than that. So good! Well, beside that or in addition to that the productions that people are making and again I'm going to say this is also Moore's Law just better computers and editing etc.

1:31:21 We now have entire songs, mashups stuff put in the right key. I mean really top-notch stuff that when i was working in Top 40 hit radio we would contract with people who would do that for a living and then typically they'd make something or A spoof song and they'd send it to 20 stations because they're all on the payroll...we have people doing such our producers doing such high quality work It's really astounding some of the stuff that we receive and use on the show Right, I think that's a function of our open source nature and the volunteer nature of the show which is unique. We did discuss a little bit about how the funding works. There was one part of the conversation that I thought was interesting and wasn't really explored but... I like a brightly lit room and Adam do you still like it dark?

1:32:12 dingy kind of cave-like atmosphere when you do the podcast? Yes, yes I do. Why is this? I don't know! It's...I think I explained it previously. I can't read in the dark Yeah, but I'm reading stuff all the time. But i'm reading the screens you read off paper? I read off screens Um for me it's a romantic It's part of our okay for me. It's part of The theater of the minds I like to be closed off the dark room Yes You know, I didn't well back in a obler back when I was smoking and I smoked continuously during the show I only needed a green visor and then i would have been set. And now, hey! I'm sitting here with the single light bulb somewhere... So now actually it's in the second bedroom is the studio and I have one of those big heavy moving blankets you know? The kind

1:33:06 Yeah, accumulate after many moves then it's on to it's on a wall No Because I'm facing the window the shades are drawn in the window and then this big black Moving blanket is in front of mainly for noise Of course for them so I don't have an echo we sound to make it a little deader in the room yeah but it also really you know brings down the Ambient light. I like it It's just what i've always i've always romanticized wanted to be the night disc jockey even though that's where the shit Closer you now since your mouth close over your mouth and a close-up of the microphone your lips come close to yeah And it's a hey, baby. Hey man is raining outside driving in a car with the windshield wipers going back and forth Do you on the radio? This is the night owl i'm telling you what's going on we play another set of led zeppelin from beginning to end

1:33:52 Yeah, that's my romantic nature. Well you know whatever works I in the other hand have thought about deadening up the room because i know that when you have a dead room You have a nice sound but i don't let the ambience do its thing and i dont know if it hurts that much i play the mic pretty close so im not like too concerned about it even though its not as directional I'm using a CAD 3000 from China. I'm a close miker, i like to spit in the mic. Well i use this mic because i was doing research on mods and i do have a mod mic which i used for quite awhile that the joely mic and it has moded everything the whole thing is just a completely remake of a chinese mike which these modders love to do

1:34:48 And so I ran into this one guy who's a major, major modder and he likes to fix mics and do crazy things but he claims that lot of things people do especially removing the capsule is just a waste of time. You just want to deal with the electronics. So I asked him specifically well you do a lot of mods what is the best mic? Made in China period you didn't have any idea. He says he named this Mike, huh? He says this is the best mic he's ever seen coming out of China It's an American company But it's Chinese mic is that one in California cad cat no cat is in the Midwest I believe okay

1:35:28 something audio devices and I think they're in Indiana. I'm not sure, but the mic is a Chinese mic and it looks like a Chinese mic and we listened to all these mics and you have the final approval on the mic and you said that mic sounds terrific! And so I've kept this mic and i've been using it with a spit screen. And uh, I'm very happy with the sound of it and its a good mic It's got three, it's got like...uhh.. Its got a figure eight pattern, its got capsules in front and back, its got a nice overall. I think the build is nice and it was 200 bucks! Nice

1:36:05 Well, here's a little thing I'll just point to show everyone how it works. I'm big on noise gates. I believe if you can't afford the NPR-like studio that which is really dead and I read an article recently about the sound is there's a whole philosophy behind it but But yeah, so you need to have a very fast acting noise gate So that when you're talking you can hear the brain and when I'm talking when you're talking You can hear there's ambient noise. Especially if you have your window open or if they give a fan on or anything like that? so just turn yours off right now and return mine off and People who are listening to the show. Now, I even have a low rumble coming from somewhere It's it's so different. We sculpted sound to what we want it to be

1:36:52 Yeah, curiously Horowitz has the noise gate that he uses when we do his... the Horowitz show DH Unplugged. Is that recent? It's pretty recently. He actually took over the he called me and he said I want to set this up And I walked for like two hours, I walked him through what he needed and those kind of like you know helping the stewardess land at 747 in a way on the phone Turned the noise gates back on hold on yes, and and I said no you want a noise gate man You really want this because it just enhances mmm the closeness and the you know the personal nature of the sound And I like it when it's completely dead, and I love the fact that we have silence from time. We talked about that on... Yeah you did. ...200.5. You harped on it really loud. I like it! People didn't... It jars people awake. Now actually, I actually liked the dead room sound. I mean, I don't mind the NPR sound. But it's as good a noise gate. The NPR sound is dead.

1:37:46 It's totally dead and I know how to do that sound. We had the Cranky Geek Show, it was being produced in San Francisco we had the black because i wanted the abyss look. This is a look I like on TV because its cheap and works and I don't know why this not used more than a busy set so you can Charlie Rose is the best user of the Abyss right? So your in a big black room actually form of black velvet that you can't the camera can pick up where it is a site magician jesus constantly so you can figure out where the mirrors are with the rabbits coming from and where they're at this time of the day

1:38:22 It also deadens the room if it's in far enough. So you can get a very... Nice sound. You can use the cheapest microphone and you sound pretty good. What was interesting is when I, before I disclosed what had happened with my personal life, I was in this apartment and I didn't have any stuff. I had nothing. I didn't even have the moving blankets. And a number of people said hey what's going on? I hear something. Something is different about this sound. Wow! Yeah, so you know, a stick Steck noticed it. Sir, 19-inch rack. Yeah and he does the heavy lifting for... He's a CISOP that is super talented. Dude named Ben yeah he runs the infrastructure of course we do have to pay for but this is a legacy from the No Agenda Stream folks Mr. Oil when they set all of that up they were thinking of starting a business and that didn't really pan out but we were very happy too

1:39:31 Assume what they had created and Mark does that for us out of love for the show. We love him for it, and his partner Iris who when he was in the hospital she was running... He'd given her instructions She was making sure everything was working make sure the stream was up and changing stuff and this is cool Now on my list here I have an anomaly that i spotted. I don't know why, I don't know that I noticed this in 2006 but the 2006 200 point six show you said something about how we promote or something and then you said...I said something about well I tell people to go to the no agenda wiki page

1:40:14 And then you went kind of like, why? Why are you sending people to that? With that voice even I remember. It could have been and it was like I was befuddled by this because it's always been a good page. It has a rundown on some of the basics of the show and one time when they edited it down next to nothing I bitched and somebody put all the good stuff back up there which is meaning of the jingles and the memes and the rest but I was kinda befuddled by your response to that I think it was because that was the era when you were irked about somebody messing with your personal homepage or something. It had nothing to do with anything I was talking about, remember that? Yeah...I also remembered that luckily they put our height on their wiki page. Yeah! You were talking about that and I don't know if its still up there. I know its humorous height

1:41:04 I don't know. Four feet and 500 inches or something? Five foot 17. Yeah, yeah...I don't know. But like uh.. I just want people to listen to our show and as witnessed by our great websites we really don't care much other than get the show and if you want to go to the show notes they're detailed and you can get to them Then they're indexed and I just like it when still you type in no agenda into the search engine. The first couple of pages are ours. Seven! Is it seven now? That's great. It's been seven for a while, right? And there's somebody everyone wants something sneaks in is always galling when you see that some... It has been awhile since I've searched for our article. Manny Pacquiao says he has no agenda and to fight or something else. Oh okay alright alright gotcha yeah that kind of thing

1:41:50 I don't really have anything. I do have a couple questions myself, do you still use that Soundbyte software? I do! Yes i do so it runs on my original iPad one Wi-Fi only and you run a little program on the computer. One of these days I will publish the whole setup, it's just... I want to do it with- But you've been saying that for years! It is because I need someone to come- This is my vinegar book! Yeah? I'll put it over here on the list! Ha ha yeah okay we'll see who releases it first You, the vinegar book or the sound set up but its really nice to have a number go-to things 1 2 3 4 5 there are 50 clips

1:42:29 that we use regularly, which includes for instance the you know This may be for some people interesting. So if we do the birthday song so that's That's pretty much one bed and it goes on and on And then when it's time for me to end that I start the second one and then I just stop the first one So, yeah You can make it as long as you want I'm not really that talented but I can fit everything into these pre-produced beds all this is the way you Do it? Yeah, you're doing it now Well, that's a very this is all pro. Yeah, exactly stuff So I do still use that and I like it a lot because I can have a couple of things Like that you do that with anything at the opening in this show you're gonna the show is the same? Yep actually That's three elements

1:43:12 Did you know that no I didn't always thought was too. No so it's the first one is curry John C DeVore and then that goes on I do my opening thing, and then But I do time this to say You know this is episode seven three six This is no agenda And then that ends and Then there's a second one that I start here which is this? And that just goes on and then you come in and whenever you're done you say I'm John C. Dvorak than I hit So that's all just a second part was an extension of the first. That's interesting. Yeah, I didn't know that it's funny things you don't need to know. I don't need to know and I don't want to know no

1:43:51 What other questions did you have? Well, now that we're here in this segment before we go back to the show I think he should play us one of the things that we've done only recently but Adam...I encouraged him to do these medley of clips at the end of the show. So it makes a show kind of like dessert the way i see it and people you know they gave us a whole show them as i get a kick out of some of the clips why don't you play s like about which is pleasant a shot at that long ones but not all the short clips you can you can quickly get to say you got your little push-button device there again but this does clinton's short clips are the longer clip so it sure was ok just go on should have just run down south what's right on the thing right there go okay

1:44:34 Here we go. That's the news flash sound effect, we have this of course when we always tell people to go out and hit people in the mouth which is also two clips. Got that one... And then the second part of that clip is this one it's a new world order stuff and then I might add this in That's all separate. The Hey Citizen, we have the... I have a ding you have a bell I have a digital bell see my Bell is this and then we have our phone call whenever we do a little phone call bit We have that we have This one You're favorite

1:45:26 And then we have the two to the head of course, we have this one. Then I have three science clips so the longer one is... So we have the science ISOed Or we have the science is in and then of course we have our standard Got the Spanish Chinese French German We got, of course a new entry came in this month. Of course Not to forget

1:46:11 We have... You've been de-douche. And of course we have the karma jingle there as well. You've got karma. and then there's a few small ones like, uh what do we have? We have this one. You can take that to the bank! Got that. Not often used but when used it's always appropriate. John C. Devorah acts pet peeve of the day. And that's probably about half of them Who did the de-douching one? I have no idea. We should give her him as a... Obviously, female voice she may have produced it or somebody else may produce it we need to give whoever it is credit someday because yeah I forgot who that was and when it came in really many of these things we should and we've talked about this I think at the 2000 point five but not emphasized it most of the show's direction has been

1:47:05 From the producer listener they have pushed this show in a certain direction the douchebag thing we never called anybody a no shag No, no they called each other douche bag and then somebody came up with the damn jingle yeah And and then the deducing jingle came after that. We had nothing that was not an invention by us most of the stuff I mean do we invented the producership idea? The club now coming up in the night who is a these are but this isn't kind of meta. This way the show flows is largely promulgated, I would say or pushed along by the...

1:47:40 people who listen to the show and produce it and Come up with stuff. They come up with all kinds of things And good things, and there's a lot of stuff that isn't all that well I want to say when we do our final segment have a couple things about how you can best Interact with us and how you can help us When you want to win as a producer if you want to add something obviously not just the financial part But there are some things would be very helpful for me certainly i'm trying to find this one producer Who has made, who's done a lot of these jingles and I was... this is the problem. Well i will mention here since it needs to be mentioned I think was really mentioned that much in 2002-2005 or 6

1:48:22 We'd still need donations even though we're doing this show. So if you would go to devoreit.org slash NA, I think it would be appreciated and we will have people who have given producer an executive producer amounts to the shows mentioned when were done on our little vacation moment which will only be two shows And the next show will be a couple of interviews, including a really fascinating interview with John Scully. Oh for the Apple guy? The Apple guy yeah. Nice. Who's kind of besmirched in the Apple community we talked about that a little bit it was very interesting and then we also have Bob Heil, the microphone. Excellent excellent. Very inventive

1:49:07 He invented a modern stage music, loud. The power trio you can thank him and I guess he was just into clear and loud sound so that'll be...I think people will find that interesting There's of course one jingle I didn't play which is also on the soundboard Also don't know who made that And let's go back to show 200.5 I, although i think we discussed it and you're the one that probably pushed the idea. Probably the name of a knighthood is my contribution Well the knighthood thing...one day and I've said this with everybody who knows me will have heard this at one time or another and I know I ran past Adam Everytime some American, and I think its supposed to be illegal to receive a knighthood from the Queen but they do

1:50:15 Anyway, every time somebody says why is what's the Queen? What so special about England that they're granting knighthoods Why don't we grant knighthoods right and I do like can't we just grant now. What can anybody? Why can't Ford Motor Company grant knighthoods what difference does it make Yeah, that's good. So with so ours are just as good as the Queens I think so And I think you have a better group That's for sure the Knights said that been on our list or there fantastic people every one of them I have a plan by the way of making a night iPhone app that will only be for nights and it'll be limited for number reasons but only be four nights and And it'll be like our Our communication model like a network a night Network. No, that's a good idea Yeah I think would be kind of fun and we did like a bat signal. I still want to Bat signal We're gonna need at one of these days Well, we've got you a lot of professional people in the knighthoods. Oh, yeah, have a doctor. We have a dentist Do we have a lawyer?

1:51:15 Oh, you know that's a good question. We need a lawyer. That's what you need right? You need a doctor... We need a lawyer or we need a butcher Yes! Hell yeah! A farmer. We need someone who can farm What drives the new promotions? That's a good question It depends on how you interpret it of course And I will say all the emails promotion ideas John does all of that I do the production of the show John does all of that stuff Yeah, I'm the marketing guy. Mainly because I've always admired certain forms of marketing that are very rarely executed by the general public and by that I mean or by general companies or little operations like ours and by that I mean PBS and religion churches

1:52:06 Because the model is so interesting that you get people that like you so much because you're doing something for them and that's what PBS and churches are perceived as doing. One is helping you spiritually, and one is educating out of mainstream media supposedly and i didn't their model for getting money and by the way i have a background in public radio i had a couple of shows two different shows that were on public radio for over almost ten years about computers and i saw the mechanism how it works and how much money they get no rest of it and uh... i always said you know why he you know why does it just have to be those two groups and then of course the publishing we know that there's direct payment from novels a difference

1:52:54 kind of a thing why are these the only two groups that are using this model and and does anyone know is that they're actually pretty successful with this mileage it working here there's some churches out there that have you know in not counting the mega churches but but some decent size church in maybe two thousand to three thousand parishioners and they got the guy who'd with a cadillac in a big house and they've got plenty of money and it's only like two thousand people that are supporting this the entire perish and it's like uh... Does anybody notice that this looks like, of course the tax-free thing doesn't hurt the guy. But it's obviously a model that works and people don't mind the model! I mean we're not getting knighthood donations because people think this is a dumb idea. So anyway so i do the promotions, I come up with them every once in awhile

1:53:44 one comes forward, say well here's an idea we this is what people would like so you know it's kinda like selling the dream kind of thing I'm not sure and then they do that used to be in direct marketing. Well i say that when people ask me about this they'll say look we have a church and our religion is the truth or as close as we can get to it There's that element. I think, you know we seem to offend a few people if we go over the off the deep end with the church angle but the fact of the matter is we do this thing on Sunday morning and i'm sure a lot of people don't go to church and listen to us instead uh... that is the but or football and be interesting to see what since we're in full tilt here trying to did maximize who are incomes it'll be interesting to see what the drop-off is on listenership on the live stream during a football season oh interesting at one that will end him by the way we do look at that could back i mean look at all the numbers we keep track of stuff eric likes them dream up weird reports and uh... we look at them and then we know where headed they were doing fine and we had

1:54:45 doing well enough that we can quit and do this full-time. And you know, which is okay being in a struggling situation is not a bad thing and the show I think is sound if I could say it. Is harder to be excited for the next show if donations are down on the previous show? It is for Adam That's not true. It's not like I'm less excited you said so once no and then you misinterpreted what I said what I meant was first of all it bums me out because I take that as a direct result of the program, of the product that we produced. It bums me out yeah it bums me out does make me less excited? No! It motivates me...it gets me motivated to do a better show

1:55:30 And we deconstructed and John by the way, you got to know this he's like like the horrible uncle you never wanted He'll send you notes. Like well that thing You did that made donations drop through the floor as horrible and I know it took me like two months To figure out this is bullshit that he's just writing not just a pissing off No, I was writing it for a good reason because I believed it to be true It's the way you write it. It's like, oh sorry grandpa! Sorry don't be such a dick I suppose they should put a bunch of smiley faces and that would make you happy Yeah good this is what i love about you um What is the single most enjoyable element of the show for each of you? Hmm that's a great question and I don't like saying the term a great question but it's a thoughtful question if you think what we'd like to...I think when the show ends

1:56:29 I think... Ours. First of all, there is no element in the show. We have no fixed elements The only thing that's fixed is donations And we do that about an hour in 45 minutes to an hour Yeah so then we've talked about that because we notice the donations fall off if we push the thing off too near The end because a lot of people to be honest about do not listen to the entire show. I agree, I agree I get a lot of emails from people like can't just we just did that two weeks ago Like how can you send me this email? and yeah, I agree A lot of people don't get through the whole show which by the way is okay

1:57:05 It's okay. And for people who listen, this is what I love, there is fast forward you can fast-forward through something you think it boring. I guarantee that will be backing up? I think so too For me... Wow! This gonna sound kinda weird Most enjoyable personally enjoyable I like when I have either an article or a clip and I get praise from you Yeah, I'll do that because I actually keep a running score but it's just for me. But you...I know you're paying attention to it and I'll score a goal for you when you hit one that is like completely catches me flat-footed. I got nothing on it. Maybe my take is even wrong because your take is better

1:57:54 and it's interesting. So I give you a kudo right on the spot, and it's sincere by the way, and usually only do it when I know that I can't top you! You can actually come up with something better than where you got the kudo or something really stunning but I KNOW I've got to topper Yeah, and so I won't give you the kudos in so that's kind of interesting. Do we have a weird father-son relationship? No no it's not though It says the teammate relationship where you're trying to compete for that position of you know dominance okay? Yeah, but I think as a team its a team orientation Where they two guys are working to win But you know book but you want to be the guy that does if you score the goal

1:58:34 Yeah, you scored the goal. Okay, you scored the goal next time I'll score the goal ya prick! Yeah that's a good analysis. So now the father and son thing doesn't work that way because father and son would be more patronizing...I'm not patronizing him, I'm straightforward about it That's true, that's true. I'll give you that. I know how much you'd like to be the case but no Not gonna happen. No, don't think so. So i got a little thing here, a little aside I had Eric run the numbers on which country listens to us and where we get most of our support from. That is a question, so...

1:59:11 and here's the answer. I'm going to do it because i have the numbers and you don't so this is my rare opportunity to make you do what we do on the show quite a bit which is make one, the other person guess knowing full well that they'll never guess correctly and its just kind of stalling tactic but guess whose number one now is this in total amount of donations? This will be both donors and amounted but uh... it's gonna go by than the total amount but turns out than the numbers match pretty well with It's one to one pretty much with the donors and totals. I will say that the Netherlands is very high on the list Who is number 1? Oh please! Well, number 1 has gotta be America Of course by a factor of 9 Alright so now it gets interesting Number 2 And before you answer I'm gonna tell you right now You're not going to get it

2:00:10 Australia? Oh, jeez you got it! Yes he shoots he scores. No I knew Australia had to be really high. I shouldn't have given you the tease. No no i knew this because we've had...I track kind of in my head and like man I get stories the Aussies are they're really into us but don't mess with them man these guys will mess you up and they don't like what's going on, I can almost guess by which country is the most suppressed. So of course America wins and then Australia... And I think The Netherlands has got to be third or fourth on the list. No actually, The Netherlands comes in sixth

2:00:56 It goes like this United States Australia Canada, right? Yeah. I forgot United Kingdom and Netherlands a UK as well Of course yeah, you know that I actually thought the Netherlands would come in a little higher so did I but no and We have a couple of we got the guys who the reason is because the Netherlands the guys who do contribute to the show from Belgium are very They're they're aggressive Right, you know Pell's mockers all he's in Belgium. He's a Belgian. Yeah. Yeah well Belgian comes in did then it comes Germany Belgium Norway Sweden Finland Switzerland Mexico

2:01:35 And then we have an anomaly with Japan, which has very few people listening but they give a lot of money. Same with Hong Kong where all the money is. Then we got Spain, Italy, France... Denmark is actually higher but they don't give any money there like their cheap cheap The damn Danes. Yeah, the Danish are obviously cheap and then Poland which is like that doesn't count they don't even you know this thing the non-english speaking countries it doesn't bother me so this is very interesting for the amount of oh that's really interesting for the amount of time we spend on or have spent on stories about Poland they're way down on the list Oh their way down? The amount of time we spend on the UK and Australia that's about right

2:02:19 Yeah. And Canada, we probably should do more on Canada. You know the Canadians are starting to complain about it and the right you know it's easy enough to do i mean is kinda hard to beat this hour has twenty two minutes or anything in the show is that uh... nails and constantly we got some support in singapore on the house every country's estonia dominican republic malaysia qatar israel one person but bura which is a bad actually when they really surprises me the most that we'd have won listener in israel he may be blocked there for all i know could be connected and uh... Portugal, we haven't got much. You'd think I have more from Brazil since i'm a writer there and fairly well known but again it's in translation. They may be writing all kinds of crap you don't know what they're translating into? No the idea...I know what they are translating to. I've had a lot of people like that I know a lot of Brazilians and one guy said to me once and I know that translator he is a great guy sat down with him

2:03:18 PowerPoint like in 10 minutes the guy's fantastic. Let me uh What was the? Oh, here's one that I can't answer what are the current subscriber numbers so first of all subscriber number subs to word subscriber is a misnomer because We really don't know how many people listen to the show by downloading we absolutely just don't know john how often and by the way i don't think anyone knows in podcasting with their actual real numbers are there is so much smoke about numbers you have to guess and uh... would you guess well based on normal direct marketing returns uh... and the kind of money we get um...

2:04:09 It's hard to say. I mean it could be anywhere from 50,000 to 400,000 Yeah that is about the same range i'm in and its impossible to tell from the downloads and you know the proxies And of course im sure there a small percentage that maybe not downloading at all listening only to stream There are people getting on BitTorrent Because we only have you know in terms of pure subscribers that are paying the $5.00, we only have about 1500 of those people we have not pushed everybody very hard to do the five dollar thing. Some people have done the thirty, some people say I'm not going to do it until you make it ten and I haven't put that up so every time they change their credit card or some number they get bounced by PayPal so they don't have a subscription anymore. I get letters saying well sorry but I didn't realize I hadn't had a subscription for six months because PayPal bounced it and I got to resubscribe sorry you know they apologize

2:05:09 and some people get bounced for no good reason. We're not that stable, we need more subscribers for sure. We'll be pushing that probably on the show more. I have two more things... One is actually would like to know how you prep for the show? I think I already explained what i do. I don't do, generally what I do is typically take the articles and things that I found and print them out and pile them up as they come, because I get most of my stuff online. And then I'm always making clips because they have an H2 recorder by my side at all times and I am constantly jumping up even with the full family could be watching a movie or something. I'm jumping up and stopping the movie backing it up and getting a clip so you know I collect a lot...I spend most of time collecting clips and articles

2:06:05 and I don't organize them very well. Because of the nature of the show, I'm always assuming that it's going to go anywhere because you never know who is going to bring up a topic that gets interesting in the conversation itself so I probably underprepared in terms pure preparation, not in terms of the work that goes into getting the clips and all that. I'm reading a lot but in terms of like thinking about what I am going to do. Occasionally we'll take a bunch of notes or if you watch this show maybe a year ago I would have these notes. I used to ridicule myself for having taken terrible notes I can't read and that was a little more preparation but I found it really hasn't, that didn't do anything to improve the show. And it also kind of puts... if I prepare too much I'll try to dominate the show which kinda ruins the pace and flow

2:06:55 And the, for me the only thing I do collect everything because if you look at the show notes versus what we talk about in this show. The show notes are often four times as much information and i think that is a valuable part of the show for people to be able to go and research stuff and look at things. And there is a reasonable segment of the audience that really uses that, appreciates it and looks at it. Some of the iPhone apps give you good access to it in searchability but I'm typically always hoping just hoping that I can find

2:07:33 From a radio production perspective here it is. I'm hoping that there's one or two zingers that i have either It's a clip, or it's story Or something and i'll work on that and i cannot go to bed on a wednesday night or? Saturday night without knowing i have something And i sometimes will try out my My rap on mickey i'll say how does this sound and usually I get shot down. Yeah, I refuse to do that. I think that's overdoing it. Yeah, I get shot down. Good! So here is a question somebody has for you... What happened to the Global Blank Fund? Adam was supposed have a big report on it. The what?!

2:08:14 Remember that fund you were talking about, that money that was hidden during the Reagan administration or something? Oh! You know... Yeah. The... It was a French name. Yeah. This is from Brian Monday. Okay now there's your answer Brian. Well I hit so many dead ends and i just don't have the time to spend my life Yeah, and it's not going to bring anything to the party. I guess the answer is no one has done enough reporting that at least that i could find believable or credible enough and the only way to really get into it is I'd have to do the investigative work myself, and that's obviously not going to happen. Okay Hugs a Lot asks what's the actual cost of producing this show? Most podcasts have zero budgets and still produce shows DSC has done free No no it's not that's not true

2:09:07 DSE is a part of what the founding and sustaining producers of the NOAA Gender Stream donated their money for, and will have to do another drive. And you know... What is the actual cost? I mean what does it cost YOU to go to work?! You know, there's actual cost. This is actual time it's... There's preparation. Time is money. Value for value that's the way it works. Time is definitely money so is there actual you know would you like me to charge by the hour? The amount of time that took me to set up a studio That's just one little thing No actually the question to me is vague I don't know what it means DZPix asks What iPhone iPad app does Adam use for the Jingles sound bank

2:09:52 I use a program called Soundbyte, B-Y-T-E. One word soundbite on the Mac It is created made by Black Cat Software and they essentially replicated a cart machine They look like carts you can color them like you would color and the cart is a cartridge that's what this old school way of putting jingles into a jingle machine And it's pretty customizable and what's nice about it is they release an iPhone app which I can run on the iPad although It kind of sucks because it runs in iPhone mode, and you kind of enlarge it. And it doesn't work very well In fact today, I didn't use it at all but normally

2:10:41 do and it brings up the screen of Your cart deck the way it looks on the computer screen And the only if I had a I would prefer to have an extra monitor instead of having the the iPad run that Because I use two monitors because I have a lot of stuff that I have to monitor And really what I need is. I need to be able to connect a third screen to my laptop I don't think that's an easy thing to do though, okay? Here's an interesting question. I should be able to answer it, but i'm going to have you do if you can. I bought a Nokia E71 because you said you like and how do I get the stream to work on it? Can we do that there is actually in the Nokia OV store

2:11:26 which is their version of the App Store, there is a... it just released. If you go there and uh... It's like create your own Nokia app I think they're actually calling them apps You can enter the RSS feed for no agenda and it will create an app for your phone And then you can put that on your phone It does not do the streaming bit but you can get streaming Programs all over the place for for the Nokia, but I think it's more interesting just to be able to To make your own app for the for the for the episodes So that's how you do that and BlackBerry by the way also is coming out. They called me like yeah We're gonna do podcasting on the blackberry where can you log in and put in your shows for your company? And I put in no agenda daily source code tech 5 top five cranky geeks and then I got bored

2:12:25 So apparently there's some podcasting thing on Blackberry. Any more from the chatroom? This is Alex from Twitter, let me see if there was one more here. Hold on a second I'm just going to see who is texting me. Guy says... The show has gone from no jingles and no talent to a glut of both I thought that was kind of unique. It's gone to a what? We have a glut of talent apparently on the show, it's just the same two guys. Somebody else asks... The show has changed a lot since its inception. It's the same guy actually, Opera Now Do you prefer the new format and obviously we do

2:13:07 Or wouldn't be doing it and the audience does more the audience does to I mean, you know The show is you know as it's a so, you know You know, I've been broadcasting long enough. Do always have people who say oh was much better than no It was better though No, I have the same thing as a writer you get this? I have people that still say when you are writing that column for info world That was much badder Yeah And I looked at those I could go back and look at that old crap and it wasn't Generally speaking things improve. Yeah, I guess it's just the nature of the beast. That's this in the nostalgia or you know people at some point people either like you more in time because they hear you more they read you more Or they like you less in time and then they associate that with maybe we're doing something different before generally speaking you weren't all right so Wrapping this up What's the future?

2:13:58 Well, we got another 200 shows to do at least no. We have what we have at least until episode 333 well before you another Promotion like the deuce club well, we gotta thank all the deuce Club members profusely and will do that over time and in on the web page and I think you know we're not showing any indication of slower growth or where people still like the show I think that would be a great thing and we talked about this off of the air a lot there's so much material for us yeah, i think the show...there is only growth because it just comes automatically. The media is getting worse they're laying everybody off the Obama administration is getting worse they are lying to the public straight out

2:14:50 You know, there's these crazy things that Hill and Knowlton are doing. I mean now that i find out they're behind all the global warming stuff you know we're doomed! That's gonna go through because you can't stop Hill and Knowlton...I don't know Are you worried that this show will ever get like taken off the air? Not seriously, but it could be you could take me taken off the air. I don't think this by the way is a huge benefit of Of our model because if you have advertisers that's the attack mechanism That's where your weakest when the minute someone doesn't like what you say look at look at Imus You know and that's just one example The minute you go somewhere that they don't like you then then the audience

2:15:30 For us it's easy. The audience like what we do, we get no money It's like okay We can turn that around in one episode. We can go oh okay we went off the track there and we couldn't get it back on But when your advertisers pull out then the network goes nuts and then you're out of a job You're dead. You're gone Your history In other words you don't have control from the get-go And that's another reason I think the direct support is the way to go. It's open source, we don't care if... One of the things that great about it, I always say well one of you know somebody bootlegs a show puts on their own website takes credit for say they produce it, I don't care The fact is our messages are embedded in this show

2:16:07 and it goes with us. We don't need to prove numbers, we don't say oh our numbers from Arbitron came in and we got a 3-3 and this is here look Mr. Advertiser give us some more money we have a better CPM we have a certain demo they have to prove our demo and we had the proof the CPM and this and that and other thing I mean it's ridiculous. Remember those days when you wait for the arbitrons come out on the whole station was like tiptoeing around well as if we know the trends are down so how bad will it be? home yeah we don't do that deal with any of that we don't want to assist ridiculous and it will be completely independent we have anybody telling us what to do if you don't have uh... advertisers telling us what to do which is the deep real danger here and i did without exception the only way we would be taken off the airs at the government or somebody sued us uh... or the government decided to pull up for the who knows i mean that but that's not gonna happen word bill that was below the radar were crackpots

2:17:07 We believe it were conspiracy theory people, who know conspiracies. And they will get taxed for being conspiracy theory guys." Yeah that's the worst thing that could happen well I can live with that. It seems to me that Alex Jones would get taken out before we do and that would be a nice warning shot he is the canary in the cage as far as i'm concerned even though I don't think he does half of work we do. I think he has good guests but thats a different format No we cant...thats another thing..thats one question we should at least before you finish We can not do two hours. Yeah, we've done it again Before you finish that you know the people say well Can I be a guest on your show? Do you how come you don't do this second? You don't do that We may do some separate interview shows separately That will be on the stream that would be part of some other initiative This show is what it is It's two guys talking to each other about current events just like you doing in the coffee shop with your buddies and

2:17:59 is no guess. When you're in the coffee shop, you don't say, man coming in to have a guest's donut... Here's a guest! You know so-and-so who just finished the book. So what was your book about? This is not the Larry King show. Right, well anyway So yeah we were gonna do an hour We're moving up now on a what are we at I have the exact recording here? We are at 145 good job Thank you again to everyone who supports no agenda who supported this show The deuce Club Thanks to everyone who's out there making websites and crazy ideas And promoting us

2:18:37 It is also your show, so I could just say thank you. John, thank you! Thank YOU! It's the highlight of my week and it happens twice a week We'll try to do these special third shows every so often Yeah what are we going to talk about? Well i think we talked out The funny thing is I'll bet we could do another two hours. You know, I was just about to say not a problem and in our spouse... Why do you think it's so weird that I don't use headphones? It's atypical for radio guys. Totally atypical but but I've managed because I use this the pop screen

2:19:21 as my point of departure. And so if I keep my lips within a quarter inch of the pop screen, I'm within range of this microphone." We're back by the way with uh... the last bit of this special episode and you can tell that we speak exactly the same way off air as we do on air. Why do you think that's so weird? That's you know it reminds me of like I tell people this when you give them try to get people teleprompter training that and the funny thing is when I remember years and years ago i was doing some some audio radio thing of some sort. And, I was reading advertising copy and there was just a moment where the read became my actual voice. Oh! That's what you get the gig obviously? And you go oh my god that sounds so cool yes actually natural

2:20:10 Now by the way, there's one thing I did want to mention in the first half is this stammering that I do all the time. I think it's annoying Thank God people don't bitch about it. I don't notice that at all Yeah well I do when I hear myself Well you know everyone has... There's a lot of stuff I don't like about how I talk You know you sound a lot better than I do. Anyway, so uh...I think this is pretty much wraps this show up Well just wanted to say there are the format well not the format if anything the show has kind of developed a format For me that you know they're there There is a change which was driven more by The world around us and when I say the world I mean the media world

2:20:58 is that now that there's less and less news actually being presented in the mainstream media, I think that both of us have taken it upon ourselves to work much harder at actually finding new words. We're doing more uncovering and I jokingly call myself a government legislation analyst Did you get the email from the guy who says that was redundant? No, I don't or I haven't seen it yet. Oh yeah well a guy says why could you call yourself that all legislation is government legislation Or it can't be called legislation so your being redundant You should be calling yourself an independent legislation analyst no something That doesn't sound good at cocktail parties when you say I know this is government legislation analysts Yeah enough. I'm just telling you need to Realize its redundant

2:21:49 Yeah, I think that way. You've done a lot more reading of deep reading and gotten into reading legislation. I had not gone that way. I have...I'm still floundering in some of this stuff. Well now I disagree because you're doing something interesting especially the last couple shows you've been tuning into a lot of foreign media sources as still English spoken in general Yeah, I have gone to the foreign sources and then because that's the only thing i've been able to do where I'll bring these stories up and you haven't heard them which proves my point that these stories are not getting out there. And some of these stories are interesting like the Cambodian child... It hits CNN now actually. Finally! That's another thing we've done since The Red Book began and actually even before that

2:22:36 People are finally realizing that we're way ahead of the curve on some of these stories. Way ahead of the curves Well, yeah just look at drones I mean, I think...I don't think it was in 205 that I can remember but i know We were talking about drones as far back as 2010 And it kind of creeps up on you and sometimes just got to remind myself like man we've been talking about this for so long. Then we were joking about drones overhead now it's mainstream conversation, just mainstream conversation! So let's wrap this one up give people a heads-up on the next show and then we hope they'll keep helping us here Yes. With the donations, even though we're not live in it at... well we are live to tape but it's kind of a... And we're gonna be back... Ah let's interrupt these guys once again this is what were talking about earlier on the show yeah now this is the end

2:23:25 We've interrupted ourselves twice here. And is there anything else? There's a couple of things that I suppose we should wrap with... I'd like to talk about how best to interact with the show, with stories and ideas. This is really from my end. Yeah this hasn't been discussed yet yeah Let's discuss it occasionally on the regular show. Right? So when you're, when you have a lot of email as an example and I've tried to do this before, please be descriptive in your subject line et cetera. And please be as short as possible. Sometimes it's just not possible people have a story if you have a story to tell, if there's something important, if you had new information, new shit has come to light all that is of course is fine but again the subject lines are very important we think about going through two or 300 emails

2:24:14 you know, 10 seconds makes a difference in my life. It really does so for me please if you have a link or something that's just funny or something you feel is relevant tweet it to me I read every single tweet um i probably will not retweet if you send some something that I'm going to use on the show I will always favorite it so you know that I've read it and the reason why is its...I go down an list and it's link link link link link I don't have to open an email Go to a next email, don't have to read the whole thing. Just... you're limited to 140 characters is beautiful if you send it that way and the same for John, the same thing and also Don't send the same great idea to both of us! That sucks Send it to John or me Sending it to both is generally not a good idea because sometimes I think well John will have that Or you may think I'm doing it And then sometimes we wind up not even covering it

2:25:09 These are very, very important things. And encryption if you really truly are sending something... If you're a government guy that wants to... Yeah, you need do encrypt because I can promise you anonymity because my system is set up so I'll know that I won't blow your cover but there's going to be copies and it's just stuff. You know? If you really want to be protected then learn how to do encryption is not all that hard Yeah, and send the encrypted stuff down because I yeah more lax about it. I don't and then a lot of time worrying about it Many people will send me clips so they'll have oh here's four clips. I made please don't do that. I appreciate it

2:25:47 But typically, I'm just winding up clipping your clips. If you want to send me a sound file of something that's highly appreciated because that saves me a lot of time in recording something or encoding it or taking it off the web whatever. Let me see so yeah those are really the only thing... I actually don't have so much of a problem with the clips So you can send them to me but if you have a long clip or reference clip where says oh look at this YouTube video do put the time Oh yes, please yeah please tell me where it's relevant and some kind of descriptor like you'll love this at 54 minutes 20. No I won't

2:26:25 I don't love that. Yeah, that sort of thing is not good. No it's not helpful. That's all right listen to this or yeah you won't believe this and i don't mind getting the email but you have to realize i get more email than adam i'm betting i don't think so? I get over 450 pieces a day oh um nah probably I get about 40 an hour is what I get. Well, that would be 800 and well but it does slow down during a certain hours so we're probably close not far from it. I go through my email in pretty much if I look at my email page right now like from cell essays from yesterday there'll be a page of I think there's like 35 on the page the way squirrel mail delivers it. Squirrel mail?

2:27:16 and so you get these 35 entries, and I'd say three were opened. I do it based on subject line of sight in person if it's somebody that I know commonly converse with, yeah I'll check theirs out. But if I looked at or read you these now you say why am I opening this? Or the worst thing that happens to the email which is the FIFO problem that we've discussed on this show... Oh! This is good. We didn't discuss this in 200.5 or 600. No, we did and we've discussed it on The Regular Show which is the last thing that comes in as a first thing that goes out

2:27:53 And here's how it works. I get an email, oh this is great! I'm gonna have to do this for the show now if i don't print the email out which is though I use a printer Adam doesn't because he uses the freedom controller If I don't print it out right there And I say to myself, which I know I shouldn't do but I'll do it anyway. I'll get back to this. Yeah it doesn't happen. Flagging and all that stuff never works? No! It doesn't work again...I never get back because I can't find it. Who sent that?! What was the title now trying to dream up searches on subject lines. Now that wasn't it and its gone! Right Oh another thing is not helpful if you have a great

2:28:33 Like, oh this document or this legislation. People send that to me on show day morning and what happens is of course I don't have time to dive into it. Oh! This would be great for today's show no it won't because I'm already way down the path there's always room for things but certainly something after read and parse and my like marking up PDF No, send it to me after the show or a day before. Not not show morning It's sad because there's a lot of good stuff and then I have the same problem by the time I'm back around is like I don't remember it Or you know, I didn't put in the right place or just... If you get stuff between Pacific Time anyway between noon and 4

2:29:18 I'd say five on Wednesdays and Saturday. That's helpful, yeah It has a better shot it does but then I have this problem because we talked about how we finish the show and on Show night so I call show night which is the night before the show that's where you know sex Is that what you call? Well Sex would be better, but it'd be kind of distracting. Show night would be you have... You're getting your clips, organizing the thing and I get to go to bed right after I close the books at midnight at midnight Pacific time. So if you get a donation and after that it doesn't get, it goes to the next show, it doesn't go on. And we're pretty strict with that. And so I close out, I send all this stuff but I also have to type in all the checks that came over $50 dollars so that's like just extra work which is fine because some of the checks are nice and they got notes and its interesting. So I have to send them all out to Eric and then that's about done with all that around 1220 and I had to go to bed cause I gotta get up at seven

2:30:19 to do the, to move the clips from... And I produce my clips in the morning before the show because the clips themselves even though i've tried out put very descriptive stuff and this is the job put the democracy now and i'll put the name of who's saying something at what were they talking about try to put it all in there but 90% of the time I can't get it all in there. and because it'd be too long of a file name. So I do the clips in the morning before the show, I produce them so I can remember them. When I look at the clips, there'll be 20 clips and I just produced them like an hour earlier. I can look at that clip and say, I know that! I just heard it! Yeah, I have the same thing. That's the last thing I do before we start the show is I organize the clips into little folders. My clips... your clips are always in one folder

2:31:10 And that's the only way I can remember them. Otherwise, if it's done too far in advance now that I won't remember either what the hell was that? Yeah sometimes I'll carry a kill clip over for a week. Yeah, never guess why I gotta put this in an extra and I won't know what it was. It says barriers there What is that? That's just something that I really knew what that meant You know three days ago but now I don't know what it means Hey, I want to thank Eric the shill Okay, I don't thank him to you. Thanks Eric Yeah He he does all the rings and stuff and he's customer support. I guess would be what we'd call it He's good at that. He's really good And I want to thank Mimi who make sure that

2:31:51 that it were all on the straight and narrow. Yeah, she does that! And uh... That's it? That's the whole Noah Jemison thing?! Well the producers of course! The people who support us obviously! Our Grand Dukes we got two of them. It's a big deal. Pell Smocker and uh... Foley. No I'm not gonna do that And, but everyone ever all the people who students this people on fixed income social security of producers listeners. I have to say it's astonishes me as most interesting thing is the number of

2:32:27 The range that we have of listeners, the demo is out of control. There's no way you can isolate the demo. We couldn't even sell this to an advertiser. No because the demo is all over the map! We don't know what they're gonna sell Mars bars or geriatric underwear? We're not sure what we're supposed to sell on your show. Not a problem. Exactly. You have no idea and it's great I mean I think it's great they have a wide variety because that way our input...we get a lot of input The input is from a wide variety of people. We have people in the government, we have people in intelligence, we have people in the military, we have steel workers... One of things that we talked about on the 200.5 show which I wanted to mention was that we were lamenting some of the people who had

2:33:12 you know who was the it was that when the oldest show is knighthood's rand a rundown and we're talking about all we need lawyers and we need uh... butchers would like to have a butcher listening well at this point years later five years later match so we have all of them yet we have a night who is a butcher we haven't i'd use a dentist we have plenty of doctors or not we have plenty of lawyers were professors yeah professors we have been made again military men we have entrepreneurs So everybody's on board and we try to do the best we can to keep everybody entertained as best We can I think we do a good job. I think so If not, we wouldn't be the show would be over Yes And that could happen if you know support if we lose our way or it was oh It would be our fault yeah, I agree something would change and

2:34:01 Or everyone rushed to all this new show these guys are doing dumb agenda dumb agenda. I've never heard of dumb agenda I've heard a no agenda, but not dumb agenda Oh dumb agenda so much better much better than no way yeah really It happened yes. I'm cognizant of it every single every single show. I'm always happy if we get to do another one Right, and that is determined on a weekly basis. And it's actually twice-weekly basis and it depends on your help, your donations and your support to Dvorak dot org slash Anna. It'd be my last plug for that. And the newsletter I will say is of extreme importance to the show which you do all that and that is your science. You really work very hard on getting people to open the newsletter Yeah well that was a challenge

2:34:50 And I encourage everyone. I've started moving the the signup link to the top of the show notes right on the home page Sign up for the newsletter there's and then make sure that if you're on gmail making, it's probably in the promotions tab or yeah It always shows us in a promotion is tab We'll show up and spam once in awhile because these guys don't care about you know at all and that is the bottom line This is your show You produce this how it works? I can't say any other way People are producing. We have the final production, we put it all together and try to lead you into places where we think will be interesting That's what we do but it really is a... I hate the word but its community You don't hate that word your full of it Nahh It like one those words Its good word Okay yeah its community everyone part in

2:35:41 And I'm like, everyone's a part of it. Over the next year or so we're gonna try to create more meetups so people can have their little get-togethers because it turns out and we've both witnessed this is that if you're out with the no agenda community in anywhere from Michigan to Tennessee to wherever and there's... To Moscow! You name it. A few of them gather together and they all like each other. It's like a social thing because anyone who listens to NOAJENDA will have a certain take on the world and that take on the world affects your personality in just the way that other people who listen to NOAGENDA, you end up liking each other. So we could create a lot of long lasting friendships if we put a little more effort into that part of it and I think we're going to attempt to do more. Certainly, I plan to be on the road

2:36:32 in the coming fall? I plan, I still want to do my trip to the Sacramento Train Museum on the Amtrak. Beat up! Nice! It would be great everybody gets on a train they chug it up through Sacramento and we all go to the train museum look around meetup have lunch in sacramento then jump on the train and go back or stay there whatever anyone wants to do I think that'd be fantastic All aboard trains good planes bad We pick up everyone from San Jose up through the peninsula, through San Francisco and on. Nice! Well I think we did it. I think so play us out maestro Yes this is another one of those things on the board

2:37:16 For the oh yes of course you know for those who have the opportunity to listen to this show live has its own merit and is interesting certainly if you're in the chat room and Not not everybody knows that probably a half an hour before we start live. There's a pre stream and You play songs, and some of us sometimes even things will be playing in the show itself We've got some longer jingles Or things that have been sent in. It's kind of a... For me personally, I like it you know? You get all hyped up. Hyped up! Pumped up! That's right pumped up and ready for the show Okay so on the next program that'll be your two interviews with Scully and Heil Did you say Hail Apples John Scully

2:38:03 I didn't dream up Hail Apple until after I did that interview. Oh, it's too bad It was too bad. I went to the Apple store locally here though And I got recognized by two or three of these apple guys and I brought up the hail apples Did they like it? They didn't get it Well, I'll say hail apple John I've raised my arm. Yeah, hail apple to you Coming to you from the crackpot condo here in FEMA region 6 in downtown Austin, Texas in the morning everybody I'm Adam Curry and from northern Silicon Valley where I remain. I'm John C Dvorak We'll be back with our interview show next week on 737 adios mofos