Carbon Captions

00:00 You can step over the body. Adam Curry, John C. Dvorak. And Sunday July 21st 2019 this is your award winning Give My Nation Media Assassination episode 1157 This Is No Agenda Machine Learning! My way through Algo School and broadcasting live from the frontier of Austin Texas capital of the drone star state in the morning everybody I'm Adam Curry and from Northern California where we're waiting female Thor and hoping for the male Aphrodite. I'm John C Dvorak. It's Crackpot & Buzzkill! In the morning... Now this is rather interesting as i checked into the shot room of trolls today, and all I can see is them talking about some character and it's gonna be a woman and they said what's going on? And was pissed off what is happening apparently Natalie Portman is going to be the female Thor

00:57 Okay, everyone's all upset about this. Well it's spot as stupid as anything I've ever heard of but okay let's just make a female Hulk then you're talking and actually that'd be more believable hmm yeah and isn't there like if bat woman or something else it was a lot of Batwoman I'm just surprised like of all the things to care about in the world. This is not high on the list No But I've seen this go on for at least a while I got bumped off, of course because my Wi-Fi problem but it's just been ongoing like garbage movies yeah They're fun to watch on the airplane

01:50 Well, I don't know about that. I think nothing holds... airplane viewing? My experience is nothing holds a candle to the Fast and Furious series And there's always eight of them to watch so it was great. Eight new ones? Oh, how did I catch that? I think... I was on a plane once sitting next to somebody and i was trying to watch some you know semi good movie and the person next to me is watching Fast & Furious 5 or something one of the movies and I couldn't keep my eyes off their screen exactly So I had to put it on

02:28 Well, this brings me to some unscientific research I've been doing about the use of closed captioning amongst Millennials and Generation Z. Yes we got some notes about this... A number of notes! I did some informal polls over at NoAgendaSocial.com You know, been hunting around people giving me unsolicited feedback which is always nice and really it comes down Three people are blaming it or attributing it to three different things. And I have three emails that I've just picked out here. This is JV, I watch everything with the carbon cap... Carbon captions! There's a new one for you. Carbon caption? Wow! I knew it! There you go, carbon captions that's perfect. Ah, I use...I watch everything with

03:25 Uh, closed caption slash subtitles. Mostly due to decades of frustrating sound mixing! Movies and modern shows are mixed with wide dynamic range room shaking explosions and gunshots are immediately followed by characters whispering important plot details Game of Thrones does this, but it's nothing new. Also like many millennials I grew up with a big family stuffed in a small home and i've lived with roommates ever since anytime there would be a siren or scream or anything else unpleasant my mom would burst through the door and tell me that baby was trying to sleep So, well these are two together. One and I got a lot of people saying hey you know they're mixing it wrong the problem is trying to jam Dolby 5.1 through stereo speakers and therefore the balance is off there may be...I think there's some validity to that part? Oh I agree! I think there's plenty of validity to that That's one of the reasons you have

04:25 take things into your own hands and you've got to either pull back on some of these processing systems like Dolby, go to straight stereo. There's ways around it I mean if you're just running a muck with just letting whatever happens happen through a couple of squeaky speakers on the TV yeah you're asking for trouble. I agree with that 100%. Yeah so it seems that there is a real issue there and I don't...I really never been very interested in surround sound and when it comes to television, I've never really set one. But i think I've had one in the past but you're thinking... So I just don't care for me It's just that I turn it up and then I can hear everything Now we get into some interesting areas accents

05:11 This is from Jay. Every single time I watch TV with people under 30, they have the closed caption on. I don't understand it either. I get it when it's something British and they can't understand access but it's always on! I dated a gal who was 28 and I tried watching Emily with her with captions on because it's in France and she fell asleep instantly It was weird because growing up we could focus on the film and follow along with the translation But for her it was like catnip Every single other thing she wanted to have the captions on for it was infuriating. Luckily that relationship failed pretty fast Okay There's one other thing there is a new Disorder that has not been codified yet in the DSM 5 or you know, but it is a real thing and

06:01 And it's only the true cause is not known, although I have some thoughts and that's auditory processing disorder. And this is closely related to ADHD and ADD both attention deficit disorders what happens is you can hear perfectly well, but your brain is either unable or slow at processing what the sounds are and turning them into words. Now I want to say up front that I grew up with subtitles Dutch

06:40 Television had English movies, they'd play the English soundtrack and they would translate in Dutch. It was very professionally done They had hundreds of people working at the state-run Subtitling organization and I learned to deal with them perfectly well to ignore them while I'm watching television I think it also helped a lot of people learn English extremely well versus Germany where they always did an overdub But the auditory processing disorder I think is something that comes from people who already have a potential deficit disorder because A lot of feedback that I received said well, I really can't focus on The movie or the whatever's on television the whole time and I look at my phone. Um, you know This people are distracted This is something we know the young people often wake up in the middle of the night just to check their phone

07:36 So there's a distraction and also second screen I guess to a degree. It's like, oh let me look up that actor what's he doing? What's going on is someone tweeting about this particular show that i'm watching and because of that many people have said well they're really helpful because you know I can catch up real quick and so I'm looking at my phone Oh just I can follow along despite darting back and forth in reading the subtitles I posit to you as my research will My positive alert my positive you As I as my research will continue in this regard is that because of the lazy use of subtitles whether it's to hear things that were drowned out by sound effects and music whether its two

08:25 Instead of really focus on what's happening with an accent and try, your brain can parse things from all the information. Oh he is in this situation? He is there? He might have said something like this? Was it something I didn't understand that people's brains have become lazy And just like you have someone who may be blind, their auditory skills increase astronomically and vice versa. People who are deaf can often see things much clearer or at least they process the information in a different way so the posit I have is because of some of the reasons that people have resorted to closed captioning and their abundant availability now due to the American with Disabilities Act etc

09:12 That the brain is starting to lose some of that auditory processing power because I have asked people, okay turn them off and how do you do it? It's like I really can't handle it anymore. I need the closed captions I can't follow along and I it sounds to me like what a deadly says she said it sounded like What's the little Woodstock from Charlie Brown? Can't really process the audio So I would say we have possibly auditory processing disorder being created by use of closed captioning. Which... I will counter that, most of these kids and i would question any one of them that have this problem especially with the Woodstock phenomenon do they ever go to music concerts? Yep

10:07 The music concerts are over amped. They're way above the legal limits of X number of decibels, I think 100 is the max and these things get 140-150. Many of them come home with ringing ears. They're all making themselves deaf at these concerts. Very rarely do any of them have the wherewithal to wear ear protection. They don't know that for example in California all the bars in California they have bands in the bars, they are required to have ear protection behind the counter that you can ask for and you get it for free. Nobody wears this stuff, and they just listen to this music at these outrageous decibel levels which started in the 60's with the Marshall amp and bands like Blue Cheer and others

10:50 And now they're all deaf and that's why they can't hear anything. I don't blame them for bringing up the captions because they're all going to be wearing your hearing aids, that's their investment of the 21st century hearing aids." Well, I'll add to that because i'm not opposed to this theory...I would add to that the incessant overuse of air pods which are hanging in their ears all day long Now I don't know if that can cause damage necessarily, but for sure. It's a sound injection! But it also changes your auditory processing because once it's further away you're not used to that anymore people are listening to podcasts thank god listening to podcasts

11:34 They turn on the microphone function so they can hear whatever's going, just to keep the earbuds in. Oh I'm taking a phone call... They're in continuously all day long and they're intended that way! I think once you then remove that from the direct in ear canal it may that it may be still I'm gonna come down to a processing issue. I don't know if its actual hearing damage could be maybe, it's a combination but we need to research further so I will keep my lab coat on yes please goo! I think there is a lot of hearing damage going on and I was sure I saw somebody the other day somebody roaming around

12:13 Uh, the store with the earbuds. Those hanging things those little apple ones the little white ones That's the ones! The AirPods And they looked like they were zombies Goo Yes goo we're changing the subject We're going to goo keyword goo So I've got this little battery that I found and I'm charging it, but I realized it's one of these devices. And I have a bunch of these things there are everybody does and I'm not the only ones noticed this because this stuff has been around is goo has been around for at least almost 20 years now talking about the soft spray that they put over devices just like a slightly rubbery compound that they spray on top

12:56 cool, so you get a nice cool feel. It's like it gives you instead of hard plastic, you get this kind of rubbery soft little coating that they put on. What would I find this on? I'm not sure I know what this is. A lot of stuff! You just...you'll find again when its over 10 years old and turns to goo. Ohhhh! And its sticky and he got the sticky goo all over everything and you can't get if off. You have to take some solvent maybe maybe it will come off. You can kinda scrape it off with your thumbnail I had like a Sony... a DAT player that was coded in this, oh it felt so professional. Oh look how funny he is. It's the professional coding! It's the professional coding and then now it's like sticky you can actually grab if you just grab it it sticks. Do we find this mainly on electronic devices? Is that where you find a lot of this coding? You find it on a lot of electronic devices. You'll find it on this battery pack I have which was high end battery pack. John be honest, is there a problem with your real doll that you want to tell us about?

13:57 No, it's not even the same type of substance. This is some specific code. You're reliably informed! Well I'm pretty sure this was always black. It was always black. I've never seen this in any other color. Dark you know just perfectly pitch-black and it's been...it was used and used and use because it was so cool. Mmm. I surprised you haven't run into this? Yeah I have I think but it's been a while. I mean I don't really have any stuff that I don't know. Well, they stopped...I think that they backed off on it but that's why i haven't noticed this for a while until I found this battery which had the stuff all over and this batteries is sticky and gooey and its got this stupid coating on it that somebody decided was a good idea It doesn't seem like you to not at least know the name of the coating That something that you would expect No! You'd think thats a good point I think you've got me there I should know the name of this stupid coating

14:55 But I'm telling you, it was a dumb idea to begin with and apparently has not worked out. And this is the classic example for all you know it's carcinogenic! They just do the... Oh look what we got this is a great idea. I would be reminded of that. How about like hand grips on a bike? Would that be the same type of stuff? That's the stuff that would get gooey. No, I think they're made out of neoprene. I think there are just whole substances softer rubber. Okay. Alright. No, It's a coating on hard plastic If the hand grips on a bike were hard plastic, yeah maybe. But no you can't get them on there if they were. I'm reminded of this...I was at some event and do you remember this one? They took all this paper off the market it was all this stuff that was used it was heat sensitive it was used for cash registers and oh yeah the purple paper that people were touching and getting sick from well they weren't getting sick from but it was carcinogenic

15:54 It had bisphenol or some damn thing on it. Yeah, something like that yeah Well I ran into the guy that made a mint selling this paper that was sold to substitute for it Oh And he told me kind of off the record which apparently is not off the record anymore Not anymore He says you know I know that stuff was bad, but they never ever tested this stuff. But they say just anything to substitute. He says for all we know this could be 10 times worse." Well instead of saying off the record just to say... because then you sound like a journalist who's cheating!

16:35 Oh, I've never been a cheater. Okay well then don't worry about it No i think no there's this there's a time limit to off the record oh okay gotcha It was under embargo at the time And also they didn't mention the guys name or anything like that Under embargo I will say that he was skeptical about his own product because and as I'm skeptical about this goo All right well I'd love to know more about what it is and how we can avoid it Well, you can't avoid it. They've used it and used it and use it for years and now it's all over the place And if it was left in the hot sun after gooifies this gets really bad It sticks! It'll stick to whatever is touching You have a piece of paper stuck to it. It's unbelievable People out there know what I'm talking about Yes Well where do want to go from here? You know I have little presentation I'd like to do some general news first

17:31 Okay, you have a story that you've been following up on. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah yeah I'm interested in listening to this You want to do this now because i figured we'd do a couple top news items first and then Like what? What's the top news item? Oh I don't know! What have you got?! I don't have a clip for it, but i was reading this morning about the situation in Canada with the pipe liners going from Alberta to BC and back. And there's a big squabble about it which is kind of interesting. No clip though? No, I don't have a clip. But I wish I did. Well then why not? How about the Cummings and Cortez show that was highlighted on Democracy Now! Okay, I don't really know what it is so let's talk about it And there is the...I got a clip of The Cummings and Cortez Show. Uh okay. They're doing...the guy who's testifying in front of Congress is uh starts with THE. The guy who's testifying in front of Congress

18:32 Is that the guy who's Homeland Security or... The acting director. He is a nice guy and he is trying to do a good job, but they're just killing him! Yeah Back on Capitol Hill, House Democrats grilled President Trump's acting Homeland Security Secretary Thursday over migrant family separations. The deaths of children taken into U.S. custody and reports of squalid overcrowded in dangerous conditions in US immigration jails this is house oversight committee chair Elijah Cummings questioning the acting DHS chief Kevin McAleenan I feel like you're doing a great job right?

19:08 Is that what you're saying? We're doing our level best in the very... What does that mean?! What does that mean when a child is sitting in their own feces, can't take a shower. Come on man! What's that about!? None of us would have our children in that position They are human beings. Also at Thursday's House Oversight hearing, Congressmember Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez confronted Kevin McAleenan over hateful messages shared by thousands of current and former Border Patrol agents on a private Facebook group. The groups' online discussions exposed by ProPublica earlier this month are full of homophobic antiimmigrant and misogynistic content about migrants and asylum seekers as well as racist attacks

19:55 On Texas, Congressmember Veronica Escobar and on Ocasio-Cortez. He's depicted in a photoshopped image being sexually assaulted by President Trump. This is Congressmember Ocasio-Cortez questioning McAleenan. Did you see the posts? mocking migrant children's deaths. I did Did you see the post planning physical harm to myself and Congresswoman Escobar? Yes, and I directed an investigation within minutes of reading the article. Did you see the images of officers circulating photoshopped images of my violent rape? yes i did

20:34 Are those officers on the job today and responsible for the safety of migrant women and children? So there's an aggressive investigation on this issue proceeding. You've heard the chief at the border patrol, the most senior female official in law enforcement across the entire country say that these posts do not meet our standards of conduct and they will be followed up aggressively. Is this still about the secret group that they were posting on Yeah, she brought it back up because there's a cuz it's about her. That's why she brought it back It's about her that's what its gotta be about me! yeah I love Elijah Cummings who is just yelling and screaming come on man they're human beings well let's not give a shit about the human being dying on the streets of Los Angeles San Francisco Austin

21:22 Seattle. All right, let me follow this up first let's go to some questioning about immigration and there is no one better than Campus Reform to talk to our country's brightest future the new kids who are just ready to graduate and they're thinking about these things, and here's a test. Let's go read them something Obama said and let's tell them that Trump said it and then see what their reaction is and then let's spring the truth on them." You've seen the gag before It's hilarious These could be pre-selected I mean select... They are selected could be selected only to show idiots but still the sampling is astounding

22:04 So I have a quote for you here that's been making the rounds on social media about the deportation of criminal illegal aliens. We are nation of laws, undocumented workers broke our laws and i believe they must be held accountable especially those who may be dangerous That's why over the past six years deportations of criminals are up 80% and we're going to keep focusing on threats to our security What's your thought in that quote? In that policy in general I think that policy comes from a place of like white American nationalism. Donald Trump has kind of like embraced this rhetoric of racism and xenophobia that is not beneficial to our country at all. I don't think that quote really stands true This administration has totally not done anything moral This is really awful Amnesty does not necessarily mean we're losing border security, I think that Trump feels that way I think it's a bad decision

22:49 because the United States should be open to immigrants. They call it land with a free for a reason." We just have to advocate for those kinds of people and people like in Congress, like Ocasio-Cortez who is helping people overcome these kinds of things. Crimes do not nullify your humanity and people are coming here in search of opportunity I'm going to show you the person that said that quote Is that surprising? Yeah, a little bit. Why is that surprising? Because I thought it was the Trump administration that said something like that. Yeah its quite surprising but I thought its from Trump. I didn't expect to be Obama either. Why did you not expect to be Obama? Ummm because...

23:31 I just, i guess? I don't know. It never occurred to me that it could be Obama Is that surprising that its a quote from President Obama Yeah that was surprising for sure Do you think its still practice of white nationalism though To deport criminal legal aliens? I think the way Trump's doing is what but President Obama to this point in Trumps presidency Obama actually deported more people though so In practice there was more from Obama though What's your question? I'd say my understanding of Obama versus Trump is that just that Obama was more liberal as far as amnesty and border security I expected that quote to come from Trump. Does that change your opinion of the practice know that President Obama did the same thing actually? To this point in his presidency deported more people than president trump had at this point No again, I just think that there's a moral way to do it and I don't know a ton about Obama's

24:28 deportation policies, but I imagine that they were a lot more humane than the ones currently going on. There you go! There you go everybody that's your mind control at work the programming is successful can't even when they hear it was Obama now he must have done in a more moral way than Trump come on please please education system now what's interesting with all this undocumented illegal immigration going on is that when I look around in Austin, Texas the people who I see who are unhoused sleeping on the street and panhandling. I don't know if they're actually homeless They're panhandling for sure Are mostly white and they seem to be on drugs We've been following...and this is going to lead right back to the illegal immigrants only in California so bear with me for a second

25:18 In Austin we changed the community guidelines, the local rules where you can now sit and lie wherever you want. You can camp wherever you want as long as it's not in front of City Hall. You can do it on Congress if you want no problem in front of businesses but not in front of City Hall! Everywhere else you can camp, you can lie down, you can panhandle in from schools bus stops anywhere you want and the reason for this is that it was unfair and not taking into consideration the challenges of life of the unhoused And now we are a couple weeks into the policy. Let's check in! This is a report from Liquor Station KXAN. Complaints tied to Austin's homeless population are growing Two and half weeks after new city rules were approved to decriminalize homelessness, some business owners say they're seeing even more problems

26:07 With the buzz of his blades, Oscar Rivera can clean up any mess. But he'll say his customer's hairline isn't the area that needs the most help. Sometimes you will see people laying right here on the ground and when you wake or come early in the morning you have to tell them to get away His shop Gallery 44 right off at 290 in Manchack isn't the only business affected It is nothing against those people but when your trying to build an establishment it hard to go further and grow. Just down the street, Straight Music has its own problem. VP Clint Strait has added locks to the bathrooms and dumpsters and told me he regularly finds needles in the parking lot. Community leaders say this is an issue of accountability and that people of Austin need to be willing to give out more resources if they want to see change It's hard to hold homeless people accountable for not throwing away their trash when they don't have receptacles to put them in it's tough to hold people accountable when

27:04 for using the bathroom in public places when they don't have a place to use the bathroom. The bottom line, this is a complex issue which requires thoughtful solutions and it's up to stakeholders just like those businesses near the homeless camps to provide their input One of things that we can all do is work together to some sort of comprehensive solution. Next month, Austin City Manager Spencer Cronk will make recommendations on how to better tweak the new rules. It's expected to include reasonable limitations on camping and potential changes to the sit-and-lie ordinance. We wanted to get a sense of how big of a problem this is for people in Austin. Here's a look at the numbers from 311 calls for service requests with the key word homeless or transient

27:47 show more than 2,700 calls so far this year. That's almost more than all of the calls from last year but it is also important to note that the rate of homeless people is increasing in Austin On the right you'll see the point in time count from Echo. While the number of people living on the streets or in shelters has increased, that rate has been much more gradual compared to the number of complaints And I would say extrapolating from that it's because the rules change so now there are more problems small business owners both those guys were Latino Now, Be Damned who gives a shit. Ah way to go Austin fantastic! Now Dr Drew Pinsky

28:32 has been on a tear about what's happening in Los Angeles. He's talked about his radio show, he's been I think it went on Fox and CNN...I don't know if he's been on MSNBC but in two short clips he explained not only what the real problem is but also what the solution is and we've talked about some of the historical reasons for this and I just wanted to share those. He was on with Scott Adams which is a rare thing I think for Scott Adams to have someone call in on his periscope and technically it's just a huge nightmare. I guess it proves that the content good doesn't really matter that much, um...I think we've been pretty clear in the past that what we see this as a drug problem That's why like saying unhoused. I don't know if someone's homeless but they're not housed when they're sleeping on the ground and Los Angeles has a huge problem with this and Dr Drew

29:25 who I think he's used to but he ran a drug addiction clinics. He says this is all about drugs. So even if we had more housing, if suddenly you know housing just appeared out of nowhere and it was free These people wouldn't necessarily even take a free house, would they? Correct. The part that is now driving me to my grave I think on this problem is that this is a population that if you walk up to them and say let's go out got a great place for you to live the majority and the vast majority will refuse

30:02 And people don't believe this, but when you are chronically mentally ill unless you have treatment it's very difficult to live in four walls. If you're a drug addict you seek the streets so there is an attachment to this lifestyle that is not being addressed The other thing is not only would they do not want housing Housing is not the problem, Los Angeles. We just absorbed in the last year or so about conservatively 800,000 undocumented immigrants. We're a sanctuary city! We welcome them in! None of them are on the streets. They all found a place to live. Eight hundred thousand people in a year found a place to live. So if government continues to focus on housing it's a hoax and I can't understand why they're focused on it."

30:50 Yes, I'm so happy he said this because it's true. You have all these illegal immigrants finding a place to stay They're not on the streets of LA either So just another data point that this is something that there's something else going on But all all the politicians can talk about is but same in Austin affordable housing need affordable housing Now you've actually provided the reasoning behind this in the past, John. I have? Yeah it's part of Dr. Drews solution so i'll get right to it and then when we're done you'll remember No! It's easily solvable. It just doesn't fit an ideology There is something called The Lent Repetrous Act which allows us to treat patients Again, you gotta read this book called American Psychosis The Lent Repetrous Act came out in 1960

31:41 And throughout human history, when people had chronic psychiatric illness or addiction the system would determine need for care. If somebody met criteria for what was called need-for-care they were cared for! They were put in a hospital and cared for and stabilized and returned to their life In the 1960s there was a guy named Robert Felix that convinced President Kennedy chronic psychiatric illness didn't really exist. That state hospitals caused it, we had one school over the past year that passed this crazy book that made the idea of putting people in a psychiatric hospital inhumane and they passed something called the Lanterman-Petras Act which moved need for care to the criteria for care as simply harm to self or other

32:29 And if you weren't saying, I'm going to kill myself or I'm going to kill somebody else. Or I'm so severely gravely disabled which is a definition that we have to work on then we could only hold you for 72 hours which doesn't accomplish much of anything So we could solve, we could help people with a harm to self for other than 72 hours. But gravely disabled could do nothing so we must change the definition of gravely disabled We must expand conservatorships. We must modify Prop 47 so we can start to prosecute drug laws again so we can motivate drug addicts to get treatment. Problem with drug addicts is they go one of three places

33:07 institution, which we've taken away prison if you take it away or they die so we are leaving drug addicts to die. Which is exactly the policy and now I'm thinking it may be on purpose If those are the three options It's clear that Los Angeles San Francisco Chicago Orlando Portland Austin are choosing the die option let them die That could be And this goes back to your story about Reagan, one flew over the cuckoo's nest. Yes what happened in the 60s was there was a big stink in the 60s of the era of Vietnam War and hippies and rock music and psychedelic scene LSD you name it. They bought into the idea that he just discussed which is that these psychiatric places are just terrible

34:04 And they're not houses that were and they started trying to shut him down but there's some foot pushback probably from the Republican side of things. But once Ronald Reagan got in he went with it so now you don't have the push back from the Republicans because he is a Republican and Reagan pretty much following the lead of the liberals, shut down all the... I don't want to call them internment camps but he shut down all insane asylums in California and let everyone on the street. And the problem worsened and worsened from that moment on. Now it's at a point where it is just nuts!

34:41 And if they don't reopen these places, you're right. You just have a bunch of corpses everywhere and I guess maybe that is what they want but in the meantime there's a couple things we can do. The most important of which if you're in cities like San Francisco or Los Angeles or Portland find those cities like Austin and tell people how liberal they are about allowing people to just live out on the open Tell him to go to Austin. This is what I've been doing locally! It's interesting because here, I keep telling people that there's no future and they need to go to San Francisco. Specifically, I recommend Berkeley area. Well, Berkeley is not really as great a place as Austin You got free needles on the streets

35:31 Well, there's free needles everywhere but Austin will be the most liberal of the places that allow... I'm not gonna let you do it. Stop! I don't want all those dead- I don't want the corpses everywhere That's what it's going to be Anyway Don't let anyone tell you differently This is about drugs It's a part of the opioid crisis as well Yeah It's a big part of it Opioids, meth It's very sad You watched that special about Seattle The death of Seattle, where was it called? Yes. Seattle is dying. Seattle's dying. There are some good stuff in there because they have a bunch of regular characters apparently who the cops can't do anything about and the guys are strung out and they brag about being loaded all the time on one thing or another. Meth is a problem. Meth is a huge problem especially in the Pacific Northwest not just the opioids. Meth which is a cheap drug gives you kind of buzz these guys were looking for I suppose

36:32 Yeah, fentanyl and meth. These are terrible products. So there's the solutions. I don't know about Prop 47 we don't have that here but...I wish Dr. Drew could come and speak at the Austin City Council meeting give him a little piece of advice. If he was invited he'd probably show up! He has enough problems in his own backyard We'll just keep playing clips see if anyone cares Nobody cares they just assume let everyone drop dead You can step over the body. Hey, hey, hey! You can step over... Just step over is no big deal. Step over and you come into the shop." So at the very end of our last show I received a clip of the day which uh..I thought it was a good clip but in hindsight like of course i deserved clip of the day

37:34 And that turned into a little bit of research. I'll refresh your memory, this is from the Google and censorship... Sorry? ...is laughing at your self-assurance about Clip of the Day. Sure! I deserve Clip of the Day! Well just throw it in there. The number one financial supporter of the Hillary Clinton... Wait, I need to set it up more This is the clip that I received Clip of the Day for And it's Senator Cruz interviewing Dr. Robert Epstein who has done research and claims that in the 2016 election at minimum about two-and-a-half but possibly 10 million votes were swayed to vote for Hillary Clinton based upon Google's algorithmic bias in their search results. I want to say something before you play the clip

38:27 Nobody, and there's shows that specialize in Google podcasts have played this clip. I was looking for it. I haven't heard anyone play this clip. It was on the hearings and there's a one show that's a Google show and they were playing clips from the hearing and they never played this clip. What Google show is that? Material. Well you know these Google shows, it's like do you trust Jeff Jarvis to be objective on Google? No I know just in general people who have if you're allowed in the building at Google. You're not gonna say anything bad about Google! No it's a conflict of interest Thank you

39:07 So here's the quote. We have no conflict of interest because everyone hates us and we take an avowal of poverty it's a twofer The number one financial supporter of the Hillary Clinton campaign in the 2016 election was the parent company of Google, Alphabet who was our first witness they were her number one financial donor and your testimony is through their deceptive search methods they moved 2.6 million votes in her direction I would think anybody whether or not you favor one candidate or another should be deeply dismayed about a handful of Silicon Valley billionaires having that much power over our elections to silently and deceptively shift vote outcomes

39:49 Again, with respect I must correct you. The 2.6 million is a rock bottom minimum the range is between two point six and ten point four million depending on how aggressively they used the techniques that I've been studying now for six and a half years Wow could you say that again please just The 2.6 million is a rock bottom minimum, the range is between 2.6 and 10.4 million votes depending on how aggressive they were in using the techniques that I've been studying such as the search engine manipulation effect, the search suggestion effect

40:30 the Answer Bot effect and a number of others. They control these, and no one can counteract them! These are not competitive! These are tools that they have at their disposal exclusively There you go. Now, of course when you hear that you're like even I'm going yeah and I think I said it on the show I don't know if it really swayed 10 million people to You know to vote for Hillary over Trump if they were you know on the fence Yeah, and I think I was citing with the professor. I think it probably could have and you were very skeptical so this is better that you do this report. You took it on. I will mention this just as kind of a side note

41:18 Let's just say the Max is true here and the max is true about the illegal immigrants that are brought into the country to vote for the Democrats. If you could sway 10 million votes and have maybe, I don't know another ten million immigrants all voting for Hillary and she still loses? How much how many people really hate this woman or or how much did people decide or how much do people really want to vote for Trump? You could look at it either way So a little background on the professor. He's a PhD and senior research psychologist

41:57 Research scientist, media professional author of 15 books and reading from his own bio. More than 300 articles on psychology related topics including empirical studies in science nature psychological science and the proceedings of the National Academy of Science has a PhD from Harvard University under BF Skinner Dr Epstein is the founder. Yeah do you know him? BF Skinner Oh yeah he's the famous behaviorist okay well one of the most famous guys ever Epstein is the founder and the director emeritus of the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies. He's also hosted several radio shows, etc. He is a registered Democrat he voted for Hillary Clinton and he started a non-profit which is The American Institute For Behavioral Research And Technology 501c3 I checked

42:49 990 filings has about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars on hand raised about forty thousand dollars every year for the past couple of years, little bump in 2016. The only people in this organization were three Epstein himself Tyler Healy who is the The technology, in fact if you read his bio you know exactly what it is. Technology director, cybersecurity expert full stack developer so he basically put together all the tests and then Brian Meredith a managing director who came to the AIBRT after a much-honored advertising agency career spanning three continents former vice president of Benton Bowles founding member and director of the international creative team at McCann Ericsson these are big advertising agencies

43:39 He passed away in 2017. I think he was probably the original funder of this organization and clearly not a lot of funding has come in but, of course if you're fighting Google you might have a lot of enemies. The Google has...I think is the largest lobbyist in DC at the moment maybe battling with China who the hell knows? Maybe they work together. So I look at the research and he has a number of research beyond what we're talking about here, which is search engine manipulation effect. The SEME

44:17 He's also looked at the search suggestion effect, the answer bot effect. Anybody has done many other things that come to psychological behavior and I think having an advertising guy in early was probably hey how do we use today's technology to sell products? And that's probably where he stumbled yeah so Probably the most fair research you get because they were looking to figure out what manipulates people towards choices The research as published in the PNAS, which is an official journal not only was it accepted and reviewed. It has been replicated in Germany! This is a big deal if you go look at all these bullcrap studies everywhere Look and see if there was a replication of it The replication crisis is rampant certainly in the psychological sciences

45:06 This you know the people can't recreate these studies and but still they're what are you eating? What are you doing it's it's distracting me. Sorry Are you ripping paper or I am actually I'm just going through some looking for some notes go on don't tear paper I wasn't tearing paper, man. I mean I'm gonna name Mike So don't talk to me named the movie I looked at his research. It is large groups, tens of thousands of people double blind study... you're tearing paper again... I'm not tearing paper! I am just taking paper out of a pile. I am demiking it. Just keep talking. No don't de-mic i need you to be able to interrupt for a reason

45:48 Here's a pile of paper, I take the paper off. What are you looking for something? Are you doing crossword puzzles? Yes! I told you that already go on Is your chair squeaking to your paper and they're talking back to each other? Just do your bit Will you just keep going with it normally you're bitching and moaning my interrupting now you're just bitching and moaning because i'm not interrupting Please please go back All right um So the research is very deep. It is done with all of this, I mean...I'm not a scientist but I've seen a lot of research throughout 11 years of doing the show and it really looks like he did all the business the way it should be done and in 2014-15 but particularly in 2016 he did a number of studies and again in 2018 where he would look at

46:39 the results based upon political questions that came in from Google query, from Bing and from Yahoo. And the results for Google were significantly different I don't...I think that you know their algorithms are different but the research really focused on and this is what I found to be interesting is that there's the bias of what people click on in search results So when you search for, you propose a question to Google the top two results receive all of the clicks with 50% going to the top one 30 percent going to the second one it drops off quite dramatically. Interestingly the last the bottom one on a page gets more

47:30 more clicks than the five or six above it. And you can probably figure out why we've all done that. Let me scroll down to the bottom, I'll click this one and go to the next page but the click is pretty much always on the top one or the top two and depending on what is driving the results, he found that amongst undecided voters this is key people who are really on the fence and it could be you know undecided voters can be 10% can be 15%, can be 20 percent of an election. People on the fence that...that the choices people make I should mention usually over twenty percent

48:13 The undecided voters are always very high right into the election. Oh really? What kind of percentage we talking? I've seen as high as 40 So he claims that given an A-B choice, that the top two links determine people's choice. And regardless of what that content is... well obviously it's pointing towards a or b if its a 20 to 90 percent will choose a over B just because they were the top 2 links so we understand the research because that's really what all his research is saying. His research is saying

48:51 Unlike anything else, when you have a choice between two candidates and you pose the question the top-two link answers that you click on that are on the top of the page will determine who we're going to vote for in aggregate over your research. I should stop you? Mmhmm. Because what he's doing is maybe deconstructing what has already been done at Google, because I will remind myself that Sergey Brin used to come on the Silicon Spin show a lot and he one time said to me you know we have the most PhDs of any company in the world. And what are those PhDs doing there? They're probably trying to figure out well they can do stuff to manipulate things

49:41 Or is that really what they're doing? Because I have some thoughts about where the biases come from. But, I have a bunch of clips most of them are about 50 to 60 seconds long but they do tell the story as from different interviews that i've put together and the first one is Epstein Introducing himself and giving a brief overview of SEME, which is the Search Engine Manipulation Effect. This is what he proved in his research. By the way the whole PDF of this research is in the show notes I've been researching all kinds of new methods of online influence that internet has made possible My first discovery was something called SEME, S-E-M-E The search engine manipulation effect

50:26 which is the impact that biased search results have on opinions and votes. When I first started doing experiments on this, which was more than six years ago, I thought the impact would be very small. It turns out the impact It's enormous, it is one of the largest behavioral effects ever discovered in the behavioral sciences. I published my first report on this effect in the proceedings for the National Academy of Sciences that was in 2015 and that report has since been accessed or downloaded more than 200 thousand times and that's a lot for scientific paper and since then I've discovered about seven other effects

51:09 neither tax are so powerful and that if they're in the hands of people who have uh... particular political leanings altogether they can shift up with a fifteen million votes in a presidential election uh... without anyone knowing that they're being manipulated him about leaving a paper trail for authorities to trace So that's kind of the same background or I gave but in maybe more succinct language so in 2016 he decided to monitor searches This is before the election leading up to the election and to compare if Google Was delivering biased search results to those top two positions versus competitors 2016. I actually set up the first

51:54 ever uh... project to monitor the search results that google being and yahoo were showing users prior to the election when they conducted election related searches uh... and i found The search results were strongly biased in favor of Hillary Clinton, whom I supported by the way. I am not a conservative and so they shifted votes lots of votes away from Donald Trump toward Hillary Clinton but in a way that people couldn't see because the way this works is People trust and click on search results that are higher in the list. So 50% of all clicks go to the top two items in the list. Wow!

52:41 Sure, and what Google was doing was putting items high in the list that led people to webpages that made Hillary Clinton look a lot better than Donald Trump. And over time that shifts the opinions and votes of undecided voters decided voters and of course in close elections it's undecided voters who determine the winner. In this particular case we calculated based on the bias that we found, uh... that Google could quite easily have shifted two to three million votes toward Hillary Clinton just using this manipulation without anyone knowing but they were doing it

53:23 And that the part of without anyone knowing they're doing it is important because this is not just a clear bias that stands out. It has a name. They can shift millions of votes using what they themselves call ephemeral experiences, in other words things like news feeds and and search suggestions uh... in search results answer boxes even ephemeral because they appear only for a second or two the effect your thinking they disappear there are stored anywhere no one can go back in time and retrace them and google employees and you know we've seen leaks recently today hero they're well aware that they can use a femoral experiences to shift votes of opinions and they do this

54:14 Deliberately I've proven it with my monitoring projects so ephemeral Experiences means it's just for an instant. It's just there your search results something a search box Your your auto complete all these things are really not trackable by you even in your mind because it's the way You've done used the Google product for ever since you've been using it now Now there was a political article that he wrote explaining all this after the election which was followed up by the top research scientist at Google search

54:53 in Politico, I think the only audio report or video report that i could find on it was from RT and they of course say this is total bullcrap. The tech giant has dismissed his previous findings saying that its algorithms are politically blind We have never reranked search results on any topic including elections to manipulate political sentiment Moreover, we do not make any ranking tweaks which are specific to elections or political candidates. Period! We always strive to provide our users with the most accurate relevant answers to their queries." Google completely disagrees with you I should say first of all they said there's no way this can be true but you disagree is it really possible the results of Google searches can influence the way people vote? Well there's no question about that i've been doing randomized controlled studies

55:45 for more than six years, measuring quite precisely the impact that they can have on people's thinking and behavior and purchases and elections. But this monitoring project that I conducted, this shows beyond any question that there was significant liberal bias in Google search results but not in search results from Bing and Yahoo. Unfortunately about 90% of the searches conducted on Google not Bing and Yahoo so and

56:31 without people's knowledge by Google's search algorithm. This is important to know and he says their influence, he's not saying that they that is their political agenda that they are putting in there and if you listen carefully to Google's rebuttal of his article they say we don't rerank results That's not what his research is calling for. He actually had something to say about it himself that Disclaimer of that denial that you just played from Google You have to listen very very very carefully to what they're saying they're saying They don't re-rank their very careful, you know in their denials we don't rerank I've never claimed they rerank anything I'm just reporting on what they actually show people and what they show people is dramatically

57:19 biased enough in our 2018 elections to have shifted upwards of 78.2 million votes spread across different races in the US and 2018." So they're not being completely honest with their answer, but they're not really lying either I don't think they're re-ranking. I don't think Sergey Brin is sitting there saying oh let's only make this the top results ha ha take that Trump! I don't think that's what happening Well, no. I mean the professor agrees with that but the point is is that if you set your algorithms up right and you are biased let's face it. I mean Sergei and then the whole team over there were in tears after Hillary lost they did on to internet of videos are out there and their weeping over this loss saying we didn't do enough

58:08 So there's no reason to re-rank when the whole thing is rigged in to begin with. And it is, and I think I can explain what's going on first let's go to 2018 he had some very surprising results this was our most recent election not a presidential election in Gitmo Nation It was for the House and for the Senate We did this very very carefully we had field agents focusing on three congressional races in California which were very hotly contested races in Republican districts. And we gave to these field agents about 500 election-related search terms, each one had different search terms for different districts where there are different issues of course

58:54 And the point is, we simply looked at what kind of search results they received when they were conducting election-related searches. And we found very consistently that on Google they ended up with search results favoring liberals and favoring liberal news sources and it was quite a dramatic effect And I'm sure that some of these house races were won by people, undecided voters researching receiving biased search results. So we're going to take it as a fact that Google's political search results have been biased and have been left-leaning. That is just the facts. It has been replicated there is no disputing that

59:44 But is it the algorithm or is the data? Which one is it?" Can we establish with any certainty just how much influence what people see in their internet searches, what impact it has upon who they vote for. Well yes that's what the scientific research has been all about and we know that among people are undecided on an issue if we show them a search results that favor one cause or favor one candidate like Brexit for example among people who are undecided that easily can shift 20% or more of them in the direction of the bias, upwards up to 80% shifts in some demographic groups. People trust algorithmic output they trust Google they think it's a

1:00:30 because it's generated by a computer, they don't see the human hand. They think it is impartial and objective and their opinions change so we've measured that quite precisely now in five national elections in multiple countries And so we know for sure that that is occurring now around the world without people's knowledge. So again, is it the algorithm that's making decisions or is it the data? Now we're going to move to two other scientists. We'll actually start with Cathy O'Neill she wrote the book weapons of math destruction She used to be a hedge fund quant

1:01:07 Which means she would write algorithms to determine market moves and how you can take it. You know, that's a lot of the flash trading is based on quant work I think quant stands for what? Quant... I don't even know what it stands for. Quantitative analysis Okay So a quant is looking an algo was programmed to look for little moves And grab those and it can be pennies or sometimes fractions and enough of those over the course of a day and you're making millions of dollars And she got bored with that and she went to go work in the, in data sciences for commercial companies for insurance companies etc. And she discovered pretty quickly that she was really separating people into classes. Classes of standing and really the opposite of a lot of what America is supposed to be

1:02:00 She I became interested in what she was saying because you know we've been following algorithms for a long time on the show. I'm gonna paraphrase her algorithms are automated opinions of the status quo So there's an opinion that says anyone living in this zip code is worthwhile to me for my marketing. If you see anyone from the zip code, take them right away." That is an opinion and that is my opinion at this very moment and the algorithm from now on will make that decision automatically without any exception it will not change it and if that's the only data has its only going to find people in that zip code as being valid. Here are some of her talking about this

1:02:44 Algorithms don't make things fair if you just blindly apply algorithms. They repeat our past practices, our patterns. They automate the status quo That would be great if we had a perfect world, but we don't. But the data scientists in those companies are told to follow the data, to focus on accuracy... Think about what that means because when all have bias it means they could be codifying sexism or any other kind of bigotry." This is all from TED Radio Hours so I couldn't get too much about the music they put under everything and she has this very interesting talk that she has

1:03:25 Now how are algorithms programmed? They're programmed with data and the data ingress, so teaching the algorithm you've probably heard this term is machine learning. And depending on the data you have you're going to feed that in, you're going to program the algorithm which is very simple if this then that it's really not much more than that It sounds really really complicated, but the underlying data seems to be a much bigger issue. Now we're going to talk to MIT researcher who graduated from MIT you have to kind of get over her Valley kind-of girl speak up talking because she is very smart and she has done a lot of research in this area Joy Boulamwini

1:04:13 And she ran into a data machine learning issue very early on, and she's black when it came to facial recognition. I am the founder of the Algorithmic Justice League so my personal mission is to fight algorithmic bias Yes, the Algorithmic Justice League which is a group of computer scientists and coders who try to raise awareness about the social problems that exist in algorithms. It's something Joy recently demonstrated by using basic webcam and facial analysis technology. And it's the kind of technology you might find when you upload a picture on social media

1:04:50 And so what I do is, I sit in front of the camera hoping for my face to be detected and I have pretty dark skin. So i'm sitting there with my face dark skinned there's no detection Then I pull on my friend's face who has much lighter skin than I do, she's Chinese. And you see that her face is immediately detected. So then I switch back to my face dark-skinned and gorgeous not detected. I put on a white mask and after I put on the white mask that's when I'm detected. And I wanted to show this as an example that in the same conditions right? A typically lit office

1:05:32 we were having a different experience. You're saying that, that a lot of the software doesn't detect black faces? Absolutely! This kind of technology is being built on machine learning techniques and machine learning techniques are based on data so if you have biased data in the input and it's not addressed you're going to have biased outcomes So this is a real-world example. You recall that there was an outrage over Google recognizing black faces, tagging them as guerrilla? I think it was Google. It may have been Facebook doesn't matter and the reason for this is when the algorithm was built it was done with an initial data set that developers probably a bunch of dudes probably Asian and white dudes used their faces to train the algorithm

1:06:22 They just didn't have any black faces at the time and lo and behold the machine didn't know what they were because it had never been given Blackface algorithmic data, and so it went to whatever. It thought was the closest thing and sadly it said oh This is a gorilla So I was very embarrassing but it's because the core base even at the development stage Didn't have the right amount of data Here's a fun game to play Want you to picture John a shoe everyone can play this at home think of a shoe Don't tell me what it is just create an image of your shoe in your mind now We're gonna feed that Image into into an algorithm and say this is a shoe whenever you see this label the shoe What image of a shoe did you have in your mind John?

1:07:09 I had an image of a beat up, kind of flattened leather shoe with some shoestrings. Right! So i had a sneaker in mind and if you don't put the sneaker or high heel...I did this with Tina yesterday she was thinking about sandals. I never would have thought about sandals So if you don't put the sandal in, it's never going to show up in the algo as a shoe. And this is how the core data is biased. It's not necessarily left-right black white Republican Democrat. It's just missing data that creates an inherent bias. So what's going on? Why isn't my face being detected? Well we have to look at

1:07:50 at how we give machines sight. Computer vision uses machine learning techniques to do facial recognition, so how this works is you create a training set with examples of faces. This is the face, this is not a face and over time you can teach a computer how to recognize other faces However, if the training sets aren't really that diverse any face that deviates too much from the established norm will be harder to detect which is what was happening to me. So now let's go to what's happening with political questions and results in Google Google is a left-leaning company. It is a liberal company, so their base algorithmic sets are always going to be based on their inherent bias and I'll give you an example if someone asks a question about Hillary Clinton's emails they need to result

1:08:44 I let me take a look at what we have. We have some Wall Street Journal, some Fox News Oh here's the New York Times article that says it was kind of a big nothing burger It's the New York Times So yeah, I think that's probably...we'll put that at the top and we'll put number two We'll put maybe something from The Wall Street Journal little less nuanced Okay now you've just trained the algorithm based on whatever its supposed to be doing That these are the shoes for that kind of shoe question Take this one step further. Who is training? The machine learning of Google is done by my future daughter-in-law We talked about her sitting here on the back porch just like tens of thousands of other people who are reviewing search results Some of it's just a pure search result some of its from hey, Google they do it for multiple companies

1:09:34 And let's say there is a question about Hillary's emails. She'll be, well I'm going to go take a look...I don't think this answer is right because it doesn't fit what I think about it so I think that this article over here from Politico that's the right answer so I am going to tag this It's going to be inherently biased towards left-leaning results because of the data, because of the employees, because of what Google is. This is not... it's far worse than Sergey Brin sitting there going, heheheh, let me change it! No It will never change because the organization is inherently biased and the data scientists are not real scientists. They're assholes who are not checking their data, they're not replicating it, checking it for any kind of fairness bias etc., that they're also probably very left-leaning and this is a mind blowing problem above some unfair shit they're putting in! And that's why they can easily say we're not doing anything, we're not reranking... No

1:10:34 But all the people you hire who they don't check. They don't check these people who are Who were being a task to make sure the results are proper? Then I do it just bring something in there paying him 14 bucks an hour if even that they don't care These reviewers often well, then you have to explain a couple things okay first of all it's no coincidence that Coincidence that Google was the largest contributed to Hillary's campaign and it would be in their best interest if they won. Yes or she won? Sure Secondly, how do you match up the Google employees with the Yahoo employees which is what one of the elements that he compared with or the Bing employees at Microsoft The Microsoft employees in fact I believe are probably much more liberal and biased than they are at Google. I do not believe

1:11:30 that they have the same algorithms and the same data that they're using. Google has vast sources of data that they're using in a variety of ways, that Yahoo! and Bing have no access to. I don't think their algorithms are basing it on thousands of people. In fact, I've heard of no one who's reviewing content choices for Bing or for Yahoo!. I don't hear about that. I hear its for Google, Facebook, and Apple And what's not explained, and you're not explaining it is Yahoo if anyone doesn't know this uses the Google engine. I don't know! I don't know that...I don't know what they're using.. I don't know if they have the exact same data set? You can say what their using They are using the Google engine

1:12:19 Well, whatever that means you need to show me what that means because I don't believe so. I don't think it's the exact same thing Google is using it just makes no sense why would they even be contemplating giving us everything? Apparently its not the exact same thing cause your'e not getting the exact same results Exactly! It's not the same That's the word...that's what their using Right..it does not....That by itself doesnot mean manually or overriding the algorithm because it would have been what Yahoo output. Now I don't believe that for a second this is a much bigger problem Google is biased, the company is biased whatever Google is is what they will be presenting to people the sad part as it turns out that bias swings large percentages of undetermined voters

1:13:12 That's the I mean the only solution in the near term is to make Google searching illegal For some period of time Because it's not stoppable. It will not, they cannot stop it! It is their system you can go through and look at every piece of the step logic to see where the results come from there won't be any injection of oh ooh ooh its about Trump lets give him something else No this is happening throughout the entire system Their whole data structure is biased You cannot walk away from this

1:13:50 Now the only other thing I'd like to say in this presentation is that sadly, this is not just happening with our elections. This is happening everywhere in your life and if you don't know what's going on you're getting screwed and you're at a disadvantage back to Cathy O'Neill for a quickie algorithms that sort through resumes or algorithms that personality tests are algorithms that decide who is a good insurance risk they're very very similar to in different companies so they're sorting people in the same kind of way And if you think about what that does on a society level, it's sorting winners and losers in the standard old-fashioned way that we've been trying to get over. That we've been trying to transcend through class or gender through race and it's against the American dream You know It is actually a social mobility problem and that's what I realized I was like I'm working on this I left finance and now what I'm doing is I'm sort of codifying inequality

1:14:44 And just as a goof, I was looking around for search terms such as how do i beat the insurance algorithm. There's a lot of information people have figured out. How do I circumvent the job site algorithm? If you put a resume in to a job site your shit is not even getting to people! You're being pre-sorted and let me give an example One of the data fields would be where did you hear this commercial? And I heard one just the other day, jobsite.com slash NPR Please go to jobsite.com slash NPR

1:15:24 You know that in many cases the algorithm will be looking only for those people whether you listen to NPR or not They got the code they put that in those are gonna be the smart people. There's the one there The ones I want screw everything else same with insurance Colossus, which is this big? Algorithm that is used for almost all the insurance companies and And you know what it all starts with? You know what the number one field is in all of these algorithmic decisions, the number one data point for insurance for a job. For I don't have to tell you all the different things What is it? It's your credit score another damn algorithmic piece of crap determining your life So if you're wondering why you're not getting a job

1:16:11 Maybe you're not submitting it right in fact we need to have our Data scientists are dudes and dudettes named Ben and Bernadette. You need to be whistleblowing What's the bias within your company? You know what's happening, you know that something's going on You know that results are being filtered out based upon X Y or Z We need whistleblowers then it may not even be malicious But it's happening your life is being determined by bad data choices anyone who's a data scientist should be ashamed of their field Hey, I've said for years the internet should have been shut down. Well... It just would be not as exacerbated as it is if there was no internet. Correct

1:16:56 Well, there's a- And I don't want to mention Professor Ted. With that i'd like to thank you for your courage and say in the morning it's you the man who put the C in the carbon captions John C Devorah! Good morning to you Mr Adam Curry In the morning all ships with sea boots on the ground and... Subs in the water If there is any out their left? And all the dames and knights out there. In the morning to our troll room Hello trolls They had nothing but stupid comments during that presentation. Very demotivating, but thank you very much NoahJenderstream.com You shouldn't be looking at the troll room while you're giving a presentation like that It's interesting you say that I have noticed... By the way, stop! You and this troll room and I would say Horowitz is the same way it's just like the closed captioning

1:17:48 I don't know what you mean by that. It's just like an addiction or something because you just need this, these words up there. No actually fuck you no? Um...I've had it written down for a number of episodes to bring this up There is a it's off to the side. It's not my main view, it's always scrolling It's a small terminal window and I always wonder why I pick out certain one-liners or certain things And I believe what is happening Is in my peripheral view? I'm seeing this My brain has developed over the course of a decade

1:18:23 Develop some mechanism to process in the little little side thread Processing what is being said there and it actually alerts my active speaking brain to look over there when there's something that may be of interest That's what's happening. I'm just smart if this is true, I would recommend anybody in they troll room To start selling Adam stuff because it looks like he's open for subliminal suggestion. That's exactly what it is in the morning to Adam at sea, the artist who brought us the artwork for episode 1156 title of that was Bividdle now we chose an evergreen for this and I got a really pissed off bunch of messages since we artists yes I gotta tell you exactly who was from the artist is hold on net Ned

1:19:21 And this was actually my favorite piece, which was the Charlie's Angels as The Squad. And he was yelling and screaming and... I'm never gonna do art anymore! This is so obvious! This is the best one! And you guys chose that piece of shit! And I said, well this is a passionate. No it's very passionate! It's interesting because that was my favorite piece and you know what? That was. I agree with that we both have veto and you said no i've seen it on the M5M news and you didn't thought it was... You didn't like it anyway but you said you would see it somewhere else so you vetoed it

1:20:01 And I was like, oh okay. I haven't seen that specific piece but i saw the reference to Charles Angels Yeah the reference yeah the reference well he was very disappointed. Corny...to be honest about it Just letting him know what the process is so at least- and also don't like the idea of equating here's my final rationale if you're interested because we do have to rationalize what we pick and uh two of us being art critics that we are I didn't think it was correct to glorify this group of four in that way. I thought it was a glorification piece and I didn't think it was appropriate Well you didn't say that as such... I did too, I remember saying... As such? I thought you said you didn't like it for a number of reasons maybe you said glorification That's one of the reasons

1:20:52 agree you're already looking at evergreen by the time I came up with that. I thought it was a glorification piece that was unnecessary and improper so just i mean and we look at these things whenever you want to put a person in the artwork, we're going to be hyper critical So having AOC... It may be a funny joke to put a little Mensa label there but that's not artwork that I want to click on I don't want to click on her. The whole idea is to get someone to click on it, so when you vilify people there's a really 50-50 chance it's not even...it's just the way it is." Yeah, you're asking for trouble. Well, it could be! Unless you make us laugh out loud. There was one instance that still remembers George Bush—I think this was done by Nick or Martin J.J., one of them—

1:21:40 where George Bush had those big Coke bottle glasses on and the huge eyeballs, and that was all the art was. But when you looked at it you cracked up so we picked it. That's the one that got Comic Strip blogger all bent out of shape. Right also a lot of if there is kind of like mainstream jokes We have to manage artists imagine this nightmare Hey! That's your beat as far as I'm concerned I'm managing the art as you do that. It's always been a nightmare for anybody who has worked with an art director Well, thank you very much Adam at Sea and all of the artists who always participate or not it's okay It's totally understood and I get it. You spend a lot of time. You don't get chosen. No agenda Artgenerator.com That piece with Charlie's Angels thing was there was some effort put into it wasn't like a toss away no it wasn't at all but thats why he was irked

1:22:36 Of course he was irked. I just wanted to make sure his voice was heard! Anyway, I made sure that he hates you now and not both of us or me. Yeah yeah I'm the one responsible for vetoing that piece of art That particular piece yeah alright anyway we appreciate the work that all our artists do and we also really survive by our executive producers associate executive producers and all producers who support us financially and we like thanking those at the top category as quickly as we can even though a little behind today in this show so let's see who we have on today's list Well, at the top of the list is our buddy Saronimus of Dogpatch in Lower Sublovia. Is this his monthly? Yeah I believe so. This is uh well you know he varies it never is never the same $900 there's some sort of code Another code we don't what are gonna figure this out one of these days with this damn code It's a long arc so maybe its a code for somebody else

1:23:31 Thank you to all the producers for their continued support of this show. I would also like to thank your respective spouses for their support and tolerance of your work demands This year alone, you have worked on national holidays on vacations and while traveling Correct Mimi and Tina thank you both for sharing your spouses For the sharing of your spouses in what would otherwise be your time That's correct. From personal experience, having a spouse that is both socially and politically engaged provides insight you cannot achieve independently. Non-donors attention please send some money or the show goes the way of Alfred E Newman! It may take 30 years but one day

1:24:18 The growing number and sophistication of moneyed organizations using all media outlets to sway opinion is lucrative to the creators of the propaganda. And we need to support those that help us see through their agenda with no agenda! Previous wars were over physical territory. Now advertisers of all kinds, including ideologues use M5M and the social media wars to win the territory of your mind using the old saying generals always fight the last war so politicians and social media fight the last internet war it is the War of Ideas with growing expertise to win more minds giving the power to influence culture society in politics

1:25:01 It is more infectious than measles. Deconstruction is the best vaccine, while not as financially lucrative it vaccinates the participants! Again listeners donate! Wow, this is... We're all victims of our own life experiences. Thank you for sharing yours. Wow! Sironimus of Lower Slobovia- of Dogpatch in Lower Slobovia thank you that's one of his most succinct calls to action I've heard Yeah maybe reproducible And and and i think we kind of proved that in our search engine bias conversation it is a war and you're losing we're all losing we are losing Losing big time

1:25:44 I'm gonna give him a karma, he never asked for it. Oh and now he never does! Give him one yeah Yeah i think that would be appropriate You've got karma He may not want one...He doesn't have to take it Arnis Selmas...Selmans...Selmans Yeah Selmans C-E-L-M-I-N-S 333 333 Jobs Karma is appreciated Jobs jobs jobs and jobs let's vote for jobs You've got karma. I believe it's in Estonia. E-E-E, yeah? Yeah! It looks right...I think it's Estonia. Yeah. Okay. Upper domain check it out somebody out there top level domain is EE Estonia 333am came in with $333 and 33 cents and his name is three three three three

1:26:48 hours and 33 minutes a.m.. I would like to keep my name and location anonymous, okay? But feel free to call me 333 am last year when i donated i asked for some baby making karma karma works all right incoming in the interest of helping others who are struggling to conceive i'll share what we did first this is step by step how to have a baby should i be taking notes here or number one yeah Donate to no agenda. It always helps, can't hurt! Next as John and Adam can no doubt attest all women are different but medicine tends to assume all women are the same at least in reproduction terms my wife started using the Crichton model fertility care system which tracks your normal biological markers The goal of this is to know when baby making is most likely and to see if there other issues

1:27:46 From this tracking, we discovered my wife had luteal phase defect and this was confirmed by blood tests. While not uncommon some women have short cycles and low progesterone for those that don't know progesterone is the chemical in the body that maintains the pregnancy after it started. It's also used as a birth control mechanism So between CARA, the Crichton model to know when baby making is most likely to be successful and progesterone supplement to keep the pregnancy going. We are expecting a child at the end of this year. of hashtag winning. This has been a long time coming and if I can help others struggling to have a child, then I hope this note does that. I want to say it was great meeting Adam in the Keeper at the Des Moines Iowa Meetup for Clips. I would like an It's True Respect and At The End Of The Day

1:28:40 Some triple or quadruple strength relationship karma if you got it for Scott of the tall corn Who hit me in the mouth and who has been on a long dry spell if you know what I mean Thanks for all you do 333 am yeah, and I want to Mention something last night. The keeper and I went to Celeste barber she had a show here in Austin At the Paramount was pretty packed You've probably never heard of Celeste Barber. I wouldn't have heard of her either, nor would Tina She has something on Instagram which i don't look at but Tina follows her Which is the Celeste Barber challenge and she's from Australia and she's a good-looking woman But she's not not a model

1:29:27 if that explains what I'm talking about. And so, you know a model will be doing something gracious you know getting out of... Kate Upton actually slipping out of the pool with her breasts protruding and the water just slipping off her svelte body and then she'll post a picture of that and of her going down of her doing the same thing which of course is hilarious! So this was really a comedy show probably more for women than anything But I learned a lot of things about giving birth and being pregnant that I never knew about. And if your wife is expecting, see if you can catch a Celeste Barber show you will be both horrified and informed. There's a lot of things we as guys don't know and it might have been better we didn't. Yeah keep it that way. That's true!

1:30:23 R-E-S-P-I-C-T. But at the end of the day, they're backing him! You know? They're backing... Come on! At the end of the day... At the end of the day John if someone wants to get anyone they can get them. At the end of the day... At the end of the day... You've got karma. Onward to associate executive producer starting with Abel Kirby Able Kirby, AK. Shoutouts to Local719 for a great meetup Colorado... Department of Transportation for allowing the negligent building practices resulted in the collapse section on the highway on US 36. Sewer chat but I'm not sure why. That's Nick The Rat sewer chat. Everybody loves little sewer chat how about some karma for that?

1:31:19 You've got karma. In Toronto, we've got Carolyn Blaney. Dame Carolyn! She's gonna be dame anyway. Toronto20333 and she's got her damehood coming up please say hog story mofos and play the Reverend Al Resist We Much parallel universe jingle in a full version of... There is no parallel universe jingle. We have the transition machine Yeah, but then we have to go into the parallel universe which it's not really a jingle that may not be usable and the full version of slash n well We could do that at the end. What is what is slash in? What is slash N I don't know Anyway, whatever it is as she's confusing us with this donation brings her today mood She requests she needs some new stuff you get your pencil out. She request extra coffee and hot sauce At The Roundtable okay

1:32:19 Got it. Dame Carolyn of Hogtown, you know we get these Toronto dames you know a couple of them now fun fact Toronto was often referred to as hog town in the 1890s that's why she wants to be named Carolyn of Hogtown because the meat packing was one of the city's main industries at the time is Chicago like that's interesting cuz that was Chicago's main industry for years In fact, when I was a little kid, there were still major meatpacking towns. We went in on the California Zephyr and you go right through these giant herds of animals. So what could this slash n full jingle of... Does it mean Dvorak dot org slash na maybe? No no no. Slash N it says specifically. Slash E-N. I have no idea

1:33:08 Hmm. Well, why don't we do a karma? We'll do the will do a sharpened resist and maybe someone can let me know what she's talking about resist We must we must and we will much About that be committed you've got karma Oh Simon Libby's is Libby's Oosky $200.02 Great show last Thursday, John and Adam! Love them Thursdays Keep it short I'm becoming a knight today This is cool I'll tell everyone in Spanish If i can request the jingle please have Bill Clinton who can do the most Again what is...I don't recall any jingle who can do the most

1:34:00 It says an oldie. Yeah, well it's I don't know how old it is. Called by Hillary Barking? You got the Hillary Barking? I got the barking yeah sure. If too hard to pull which it is...I'll settle for John doing the foamer that's not me thanks John for the night table if any left pot and vinegar for the nights can you put pot and vinegar on the list? Pot and vinegar added to the list uh for the knights and dames out there I would like to be known as Sir Veek V-E-C, knight. Servique Knight. Oh! Servique Knight! You're welcome. Oh, Servique Knight I get it Love and light and such pew pew that's true Pew oh he wants pew does he want those jingles? God dang i mean please if you're gonna do jingles then uh yeah

1:34:56 Give us the list and all this... It's okay, you're not grousing at the guy. He is a knight! You should be nice I know, I grouse before he becomes a knight. I just want- You know what? As I try to prepare these things and have everything ready And then I get all these curveballs Oh my god! Listen to that horn! That's true! You've got karma Yeah, you did it fine. And that would be our last of our associate executive producers for show 1157 uh Heinz 57 we got uh Wow Do we get an extra little thing in our paycheck for that one? Good thing Heinz 57. Maybe a case of Heinz. Heinz 57. So I want to thank all these folks it makes the show possible when

1:35:51 And especially on Sundays, where donations are not usually that great. And these are official credits you producers and executive or executive producers and associate executive producers. These things are valuable I know Sir Anonymous of Dogpatch may not use them for whatever reasons he has But everyone else, I'd suggest you put them on your LinkedIn. You can put them anywhere where... Apparently it trips algos when you're looking for a job! There ya go. Support us for our Thursday show! Go to devorak.org slash N-A Well now you know all about the algos until you go out there and propagate it Our formula is this We go out we hit people in the mouth What? Order! OOF! OOF! That's a slave Shut up slave

1:36:48 So I've been putting a lot of notes on Twitter demanding that they start putting Hillary on these polls. Yes, you are now in the Democrat Hall of Fame, people really love you trying to bring her in! They don't want her. That's probably true, maybe it's not true all I know is that if you're going to start doing these comparisons about who can beat Trump or who's gonna get the most votes and who can get the nomination why isn't she on there just as a test? Biden was on there before he ever declared to run! Yeah i'm with ya, okay so um... The reason would be they hate her uh that even with Google's biased algorithm in her favor she still lost

1:37:39 Would these be the reasons that they don't want to put it on? No, I think there's something that happened somewhere along... You know here's what my thinking is because i've been trying to figure this out myself. I think that Hillary was not a good candidate because she really didn't she just thought she was going to waltz in and she did no effort he had her same cronies running the campaign that they were doing that lost Obama They're lazy campaigners and they didn't really do a very good job of it because she, cause they all were talked themselves into believing like the Democrats do. They talk themselves into believing that they're going to run against some bonehead this Trump guys joke. In fact, they wanted him to be the candidate. They wanted him to be candidates like oh please would be so great we need him to be candidate Oh, it'll be so easy! The media was all in on that's what I kept and I will say it again

1:38:34 According to reports, because I don't know the media won't cover Bernie. is that I'm less likely to blame Schultz for the screw up with Bernie or putting Bernie on the side than I am the media. The media would cover every giant Trump rally, there were 25 thousand people at a Trump rally let's say on average and there was 50 people 100 people 200 people at a Hillary rally and twenty five thousand or more at a Bernie rally they would not cover the Bernie rallies And they're still not covering, I understand. Don't know for a fact because the media is not covering it but i heard there was one Bernie rally recently with 50 000 people attending. It wouldn't surprise me this has been very consistent with his campaigning but of course he's not really a democrat and they all know that's why like he just leeching off our ticket like a good socialist would do. There's an element of that he's not a democrat as an independent

1:39:34 And so now he corns in at the end. I can see them not wanting him, you know? The guy's not even a Democrat! He is an independent just using us...you know, using us. He's a user. Socialist user. Socialist user. Yeah that's what he is. That's what he is okay So I just want to see..I just want....just put Hillary on a poll I mean, you know one of those polls. Double L not LA yeah I gotcha head on a stick. Put her on the poll and see how she does come on! I love the story that Bernie's campaign workers who have a union

1:40:16 are thinking of striking because he's not paying him $15 an hour, which is what the very proposal he's making for the rest of the country. Yes! Oh it's fantastic... oh crap I thought for sure you would have had something about that. Ah I missed this. This is great yeah they're all saying hey We work in 60 or 70 hours, we're making the equivalent of about $13.50 so you gotta up it for us! You know? We need to have 15 dollars an hour this is what your proposing. Here Labor Fight Royals Bernie Sanders Campaign as workers demand the fifteen dollar hourly pay that candidate has proposed for employees nationwide.

1:40:57 Well, you know Bernie when they busted him last go-around when he was like there was some sexism or some crap in the campaign. They throw it at him at the end and said what about this and what about that? Bernie's really good at deflecting this stuff He will come out say I didn't know about it Make a big stink about it and then we look into it May I just say your Bernies pretty good It's getting there Horowitz has got it nailed Interesting. So, let's see if I have anything else. Alright we got a few things going on there is a...I got a weird gaffe that Judy had a gaffe on PBS that was kind of odd? Okay can we go straight to it

1:41:45 Yeah. And that's on health care, Bernie Sanders is out there saying let's move to single payer doubling down on that saying that's the way we take care of all Americans but you have Al Gore doubling down on Obamacare what does this add up to? Yeah I mean Joe Biden was... What did i say? You said Al Gore. Is he running too? Is he going to be able to make it stage? Well he overshadowed but not that much. Joe Biden Hmm, what was going on in her head? I mean you can make all kinds of different mistakes but Al Gore she's probably first thinking of VP because Biden was vice president and then she probably thought of some dick

1:42:32 Oh yeah, it must have been al... I don't know. Something weird. That was the strangest part. Yeah, that sounded very peculiar. That is kind of odd. It's very odd. Well at least someone called her out on it. Geez that doesn't even happen that often anymore No usually just keeps going now there's a story that was on Democracy Now! that worked- I've said this before Democracy Now! is not a great news outlet but Occasionally they do stories that nobody else touches. I agree with that, and it doesn't mean that they're good or they're correct but they do them But at least you have to give him credit for in fact That's one of the reasons i'm always compelled to listen to this show A lot of its eye rolling a lot of it They do the association stories where they talk about one thing and switch To another to make you associate? I don't like that I have an example of that today Okay but there is this one And to be honest about

1:43:30 I don't remember the story at all. And this is the story about Catherine Gunn and only Democracy Now! covered it, she was a whistleblower for GCHQ. She blew the whistle on the first go-round... British Intelligence? Yeah that stands for Government Communications Headquarters It's the NSA of England. Was a worker there and she blew the whistle on some bullcrap that was going on some blackmail Which is what we say these agencies are good for That was gonna happen. And and this is before the Iraq war came up with the idea Well met weapons of mass destruction They were gonna go in there first, they're gonna use these trick a trick to get in there Without having to bull crap the public with their weapons of mass destruction. And so her story

1:44:30 is discussed on Democracy Now! because they're the only ones who covered it. And so let's listen to this, this is a long clip, two minutes, little over two minutes. Catherine Gunn story DN. As the British government says its identified the person who leaked cables that forced out the British ambassador to the United States for calling President Trump inept We look at the real-life political thriller of a British intelligence specialist who risked everything to blow the whistle on U.S. dirty tricks at the United Nations in the leadup to the Iraq invasion, In 2003, Catherine Gunn was working for Britain's Government Communications Headquarters known as GCHQ—the intelligence agency similar to the National Security Agency here. When she opened a top-secret NSA memorandum, the highly confidential memo revealed the United States was collaborating with Britain in collecting sensitive information on United Nations Security Council members in order to pressure them into supporting the Iraq invasion.

1:45:30 Guided by her conscience, Kathryn Gunn defied her government and leaked the memo to the press setting off a chain of events that jeopardized her freedom, her safety but also opened the door to putting the entire Iraq invasion on trial. Acclaimed Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg described Kathryn Gunn's action as the most important and courageous leak I have ever seen. Dan Ellsberg said, "'No one else—including myself—has ever done what Kathryn Gunn did, tell secret truths of personal risk before an imminent war in time possibly to avert it.'" Well, now Kathryn Gunn's story is being told in the new film Official Secrets starring Keira Knightley. At the time her actions received very little attention from journalists in the United States— Colleagues! —unless you're watching Democracy Now!. In 2004, Democracy Now interviewed Kathryn Gunn. I asked her why she decided to leak the memo?

1:46:26 When I saw this email asking GCHQ's help to bug the six swing nations to get a vote for war with Iraq, I was very angry at first and very saddened that it had come to this. And despite all the talk from both Tony Blair and George Bush about how important it was to get the U.N. on board and to legitimize any kind of aggression, that they were actually going around it in such low-handed manner. So I decided that

1:47:07 The risk to my career was minute compared to the upcoming war in Iraq. Just for context, the six nations that the... Oh it's just in the next clip! Okay then I'll be quiet Now the reason, the next clip is they actually brought her on again. She's on the show now and they're asking about The Six Nations and this... And they have a director of the movie there and a whole bunch of other people it's actually big group that she's there. A couple things I find fascinating which was one is that we've discussed this on the show and this is discussed in a couple of new items being developed whereby it turns out

1:47:51 The CIA has at least one or maybe two people in every major news outlet in the country. And they put a stop to this sort of thing, so that's why this story was never discussed in the American media." It just was killed. She's bragging about it, Democracy Now! did it because Democracy Now!, if they have a spook in there is Amy. Yeah. Because I don't know anybody else. So so they had and they first figure well we can't get a spook in there. We've had situations where

1:48:30 We know people that have worked at certain organizations that have discussed with us. People that are there, why are they there? What are they doing there and they keep screwing with us within the NPR world and every place else. At Mevio we identified one working there, we believe And they're all over the place and I always like to spot them. This is our Spot The Spook game. Oh, is that where you go with this? So we have all these... Well, I just wanted to mention this because people should know that it's really difficult On the no agenda show for anyone to get in just be a spook because this is just a small operation list. I know i'm not a spook, I know i'm not a spook and he knows he's done so there's nobody that's why our show tells

1:49:20 stories about, you know it's not like within a giant organization where there is a spook or two that will quash stories. Now you know guys people aren't interested in that they're not interested in that what are talking about we have better story than this so if you don't do the story would you like us to write a book for you and put your name on it? Yeah exactly and you can go on CNN a lot. So they brought her on and they ask about the countries, she doesn't give the laundry list but the director does and then they imply it was all part of blackmailing operation. But what did you see in your email?

1:50:01 Well, it was a memo from a chap called Frank Koza who worked at the NSA. And yeah it was just a request from the NSA for GCHQ to assist them in bugging the domestic and office communications of the six UN Security Council delegates Wait a second, in bugging and spying on in eavesdropping wiretapping or whatever. Yeah yeah And who were these six countries? You're putting me off I know Gavin worked on the screenplay as the director Yes Angola Cameroon Bulgaria Chile

1:49:20 stories about, you know it's not like within a giant organization where there is a spook or two that will quash stories. Now you know guys people aren't interested in that they're not interested in that what are talking about we have better story than this so if you don't do the story would you like us to write a book for you and put your name on it? Yeah exactly and you can go on CNN a lot. So they brought her on and they ask about the countries, she doesn't give the laundry list but the director does and then they imply it was all part of blackmailing operation. But what did you see in your email?

1:50:01 Well, it was a memo from a chap called Frank Koza who worked at the NSA. And yeah it was just a request from the NSA for GCHQ to assist them in bugging the domestic and office communications of the six UN Security Council delegates Wait a second, in bugging and spying on in eavesdropping wiretapping or whatever. Yeah yeah And who were these six countries? You're putting me off I know Gavin worked on the screenplay as the director Yes Angola Cameroon Bulgaria Chile

1:50:40 Pakistan and Mexico. Yeah, so bugging these six countries? Who were the non-permanent members on the UN Security Council at the time? And the idea was they would figure out which way they were going to vote so that they could sway them Well no more than that The idea was together information that they could use to bribe them or you know Threaten them into voting yes for the resolution The term is blackmail I don't know why she didn't use it The term is blackmail and that's what is going on with all this snooping. And this is another message that people need to understand when you say, well I don't care if they listen in on what I'm doing because I'm not doing anything wrong! That's not the point it's not you that's doing anything wrong it's somebody else who can be blackmailed and they would maybe vote against your interests yes

1:51:36 And that's the problem with, that's why privacy has to be a big deal. It's not because oh I'm not doing anything wrong and i don't care if they're listening in there's no such thing as privacy anymore You could have stopped a horrible war which hundreds of thousands of people were killed in but now you didn't care about your privacy Now of course this ended up being, it did screw up the worst beginning so they had to come up with a yellow cake and all that other crap. Aluminum tubes. Hey hold on John I'm looking at the Wikipedia entry for this story of Catherine Gunn and it says Angola Bulgaria Cameroon Chile Pakistan but not Mexico it says Guinea

1:52:22 This guy said Mexico. He said Mexico? No, Mexico is not in Wikipedia it's Guinea he said Mexico It's not on the wiki page Well we'd have to look at who was on the security council at that time Lots of people but who was the swing? It doesn't really matter I'm just saying They may have left Mexico out for a reason again Yeah, Wikipedia is very trustworthy Somebody over there with gray hair, blue... let's see he's got a nice kind of Brooks Brothers jacket. A blue shirt or light-blue shirt or even a white shirt. A tie kind of a regimental tie nothing fancy usually white hair for some unknown reason and that guy is the guy who probably put a quash that meant

1:53:11 These guys, they all look the same. You're being very bigoted about this? Yeah a little bit but you not arguing against it my theory no how could I absolutely right it's just it's just sad how well you made a good point there like it is important what people can hear what you're doing or see what you're doing it is important that does make a difference unbelievable Well, that's pretty good. So they're bringing her back and what was kind of the whole point of this revisit? Well the thing with this it really ties into the guy who got busted that you know the British ambassador to US who said Trump was an idiot we talked about this in the last show before this character and I guess you know this is just democracy now trying to keep

1:54:06 Flame is bubbling about so they can keep saying well. He said the British ambassador said Trump was inept I See what you're saying okay? All right that makes sense, I mean she does a lot of these I don't know if you call it conflating And I think there's another example in here Where they're talking about one thing and she has to throw something else in She does this concert heres Here's Amy changing the subject I'm sure she did that expertly. Environmental Protection Agency announced Thursday it will not ban the widely used pesticide chlorpyrifos even though the agency's own research shows it can cause brain damage in children

1:54:48 The Obama administration said it would ban the use of a toxic chemical in 2015, but the rule never took effect and was suspended in 2017 by then-EPA head Scott Pruitt. This comes as the Trump administration is preparing to roll back government regulations on nuclear power plants with staffers at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission recommending allowing the nuclear industry to carry out more self inspections while slashing the size and scope of radiation and emergency preparedness inspections at nuclear plants. Well very slick transition into something I didn't really even hear anywhere so while completely unrelated, I like that news at the end

1:55:34 That was interesting, yeah. I mean, I thought...I was taken a little bit back by it but i've been hearing these kind of stories like this where you talk about one thing and somehow get into another topic and make the transition The other example that is this one UK climate change transitions to Jew hatred Nice! So why did the all-party environmental committee accuse the government of coasting on climate change? Can I just wager something here? Does it go from denial, from climate denial to Holocaust denial. Oh! It's a different kind of trans... oh okay well pay attention everybody So why did the all-party environmental committee accuse the government of coasting on climate change

1:56:19 The government has a fine record on climate change, including our recent devastation on net zero emissions. But then the Prime Minister changed tack this morning more than 60 Labour members of the Lords put their names to an advert in the Guardian newspaper they accused Jeremy Corbyn of failing to tackle anti-semitism and said he'd allowed a toxic culture to grow in the Labour Party Before the right honourable gentleman stands up and parades himself as the champion of climate change or the champion of the people, or defender of equality and fairness he needs to apologise for his failure to deal with racism in the Labour party.

1:57:03 Theresa May produced a copy of the advert and began to read from it. The Labour Party welcomes everyone except, it seems Jews. Wait a minute! This is great! That was quick she just went from you know what... You hate Jews too! That was literally what she did. This is great, listen to this. Theresa May produced a copy of the advert and began to read from it. The Labour Party welcomes everyone except, it seems Jews! This is your legacy Mr Corbyn you still haven't opened your eyes you still haven't told the whole truth You still have accepted your responsibility You have failed the test of leadership Apologise now

1:58:06 The Labour leader said his party had been the first to introduce anti-racist legislation. This party totally opposes racism in any form whatsoever! Anti-Semitism has no place in our society, no place in any of our parties and no place in any of our dialogue Unbelievable

1:58:46 Truly, I mean that's...I've seen the newspapers talk about it a little bit in the UK and people but just for Theresa May to jump out like that? Out of the blue because they're talking about climate change. That was just lame but it was funny and you see comedy bits about this one thing I remember from years ago on old show called Fridays where actually Larry David was playing a character he comes And he comes in as a substitute lawyer. A SUBSTITUTE LAWYER?! So, he comes in as a substitute lawyer and there's some case about whatever the case was... The first thing he does is accuses the witness of being a lesbian! For no reason. Fantastic. That was good that said.

1:59:42 I think that is worthy of a clip of the day. I'm gonna give that one to him. That was truly bizarrely nutty and what a way to shame someone just in a horrific way you Jew hater! Apologize now, Jew hater! What's the guy gonna do? It's not that different than calling everyone a racist Yeah but Jew haters next-level shit man Now, there was something going on. There was a bunch of protests being discussed on Democracy Now!, and I want to play these two clips real quick because one of them is neither one of these stories cropped up but the second one is very strange to me because when you hear the second one

2:00:25 I wonder what is going on, but this is the undiscussed protest that says nins. But of nuns there's a non-protest going on in Washington DC Capitol Police arrested 70 Catholic nuns and clergy Thursday as they held a nonviolent sit-in protest inside the Russell Senate office building against the Trump administration's inhumane treatment of immigrants and asylum seekers more than a dozen protesters stood in a circle holding the photographs of migrant children who've died in U.S. custody reciting their names the latest protest came as immigrant communities across the country have prepared for reported ice raids that were scheduled to begin last weekend but have largely not materialized

2:01:09 There's a never-gonna materialist, but does he think it is the conflict of interest to Catholic charities and the whole thing? I mean come on nuns. Oh totally! This is a very good point and people need to understand that the Catholic Charities received over $1 billion just recently actually was 2 billion for all of them but these the Catholic Charities and the charities located here in Austin I think it's Christian or Catholic, I don't remember. One is Catholic says Catholic but they are religious organizations who are receiving this government money to take care of... Take the kids! To take the kids and then have the nuns protesting? Yeah that is pretty sickening thinking that they may be just protesting for money for their organization

2:01:57 Where was the mention of that? I'm sure Amy came back and said something about that, didn't she? No. Okay, oh well... But what came up next was this! And listen to this carefully and tell me have you heard anything about this Why does it what is what's the deal? This is the last clip that says I don't know. What it says as will Indian asylum song yeah, see ya Meanwhile a group of Indian Asylum seekers in El Paso Texas have launched a hunger strike from inside an ICE immigration jail Demanding they be released while they appeal their deportation orders one of the men told The Texas Monthly if I go back to India I'll be tortured and killed I can die here

2:02:40 It's the second time this year that Indian men have led hunger strikes at the El Paso Processing Center. Oh, I think we should just open the borders for all Indians! I'd like to know what this is about? What are they protesting? If they go back to India, they're going to be tortured and they're gonna die there. What?! Do you know anything about Indians being tortured in India and coming over here somehow getting over here and ending up in El Paso? Well, I'm pretty sure uh... They have millions of slaves in India people are in slave labor situations in the caste system it's a very divided culture that they have

2:03:21 So yeah, I'm pretty sure if you're in the lower tiers that you just screw you. You're no good! Well, I'd like to get more information on this story. She didn't provide anything. It was just a vague general story as if we were all supposed to know about this. I don't know anything about this. I was distressed. Somehow I got a short picture of you really being distressed but I understand I haven't seen the show ISO. I can offer since we're in the topic okay latest racist remarks ooh That may be a good one pull up more on President Trump's latest racist remark racist remarks You didn't clip it very well a little thing at the end of more on President Trump's latest racist remarks ah No, I thought I could not a great clip at the end It's for consideration We've been talking about the

2:04:20 Face app that changes your face once again went viral and even though we discussed it really in detail on the last episode as to why this is a problem. Your government, not yours maybe but here in America we got Chuck Schumer one of the leading Democrats, the copy-de-coup de tutti copy of all the Democrats certainly on Capitol Hill telling us, the American people's that you should be very afraid! Be very friendly with this app But his reasons? Hi everybody, and I'm here to give a- By the way this is how he talks to young people. Hi everybody! This is what he thinks his hip sounds like. Hi everybody. Hi everybody and I'm here to give a warning for all Americans Millions of people have been downloading FaceApp Seems like fun It applies a little AI to a selfie To make your face look older younger add a beard whatever

2:05:18 What seems like a benign new social media fad, however may actually not be benign at all. Recently it came to light that the parent company of the app Wireless Labs is based in St Petersburg Just as worrisome It came to light that the app not only takes your picture but retains the right to keep your photos or even your search history it allows quote perpetual irrevocable and worldwide license to your photos, name or likeness. So this is a breathtaking and possibly dangerous level of access and it raises substantial privacy concerns the risk that your facial data could also fall into the hands of something like Russian intelligence with Russian military apparatus is disturbing. Bullshit!

2:06:08 I'm flabbergasted by this for a number of reasons. One, he could have been reading the terms and services of Instagram Facebook or any other social network they all have that irrevocable worldwide license in perpetuity to use your name likeness they all have that! They can all do that And then because the company is headquartered in, he didn't even say Russia at the beginning. St Petersburg? Oh now we have to be worried about your face data falling into the hands of the Russians Shut up Schumer! What a nincompoop The real issue is that app is tracking your ass all over the place It's got US trackers in it Actually I got so pissed off when I heard this clip I went to find out...I did

2:07:01 Are these data brokers we've talked about this a lot the data brokers the data brokers Do you have any idea who the data brokers are? Well, there's credit card companies our credit companies to fight good guys. Oh, there's a lot of them actually the number one aggregator of Data Broker content and data is Oracle Yeah, and you go and you know why they had a couple they had ad tech all in 2014 They were buying up little ad tech companies. But then they made a whopper. They acquired axiom ACX IOM You've never heard of axiom. You're not supposed to hear of axiom but they have the end it's a very old company that been around since the early 60s and

2:07:48 and they are the original Mac Daddy of collecting your purchase history. They have an entire network of getting offline information, they sell this back to Google I'm sure Google has its own competencies and everyone's building their own databases and profiles on you but they... Let's use the right term, dossier. In fact yes it is a dossier 9 of the top 10 automotive companies use them, 8 out of 10 financial companies, the credit card companies, the pharmaceutical companies. These are people who have the dossier on you

2:08:29 And they can take all your disparate data. I mean, they've been doing this for a long time very valuable company that were purchased by Oracle for almost $3 billion and this is all being stored in Oracle databases you know who else uses Oracle databases? Yeah the government! In fact in 2001 Axiom pitched the Department of Justice to start scouring the internet and websites and people's profiles...I mean their dossier for keywords Now the government rejected them, at least according to this letter. But they have...the government was also spoke very highly of their capabilities and it was you know there were some conflict of interest. You know the thing that your overlooking and you shouldn't mention it is you just know how

2:09:14 accurate these dossiers are about you. And you can attest to that as you usually get pulled over every time they left the country. Yeah, and once you're in the dossier it's hard to get something out of the dossier if there is bad data in there. They used to allow you to look What they have in your in their dossier on you. They've closed that down although they do say that beginning 2020 They're bringing back a new customer portal They also bought something called I think was live what's it Livewire? I gotta find this they bought some other company and you can opt out of that if

2:09:55 Opt-outs yes here it is that company was live ramp there you go live ramp and so that's how they get a lot of their data from the web which you apparently can opt out What I thought would be interesting is to listen to their marketing pitch. They have a marketing video and it's gobbledygook, marketing poop but it's interesting because from my research over the weekend into these guys It's real what they can do They really have the goods on all of us Across the globe, always connected consumers expect seamless omni-channel personalized experiences from the brands they engage. Axiom, the data and technology foundation for the world's best marketers is a trusted advisor helping brands build an open garden reality that unifies data at the foundation layer connecting the marketing ecosystem for the ultimate customer experience

2:11:02 And that means consumers win with more relevant content and timely offers that align with their needs. Axiom's robust suite of offerings combine 50 years of data-driven marketing experience, and leadership in ethical data use and privacy enabling brands and their partners to create powerful experiences across every consumer touchpoint In more than 60 countries across Asia-Pacific, Europe and the Americas, Axiom provides clients access to 2.5 billion consumers and two thirds of the world's digital population Axiom helps marketers by delivering a suite of superior services and omni-channel data environment solutions. Omnichannel solutions leverage the best data, identity management strategy and analytic services combined with the unified Data Layer framework connecting Mardtech and AdTech at the Data Layer to deliver quantifiable business impact

2:11:58 By providing the most advanced program for data ethics and governance, Axiom always puts the consumer first. Axiom brings a powerhouse of data-driven marketing expertise to serve the world's best brands Axiom, powerful capabilities centered around a trusted unified data foundation that advances the data-driven next generation of marketing. These capabilities unlock more value and new opportunities that unify first second and third party data at scale and protect privacy across the ecosystem when experience matters brands trust Axiom

2:12:39 That's a two-minute video explaining how they're spying on you. What I find kind of sad is if they get something wrong, some data is incorrect somehow or you made a choice that was different this is what everyone pulls their information from this is where they get it from and throwback to our call back to our algo and machine learning example This company could screw up your life! You might not even know it Absolutely. These are the guys and so... And the thing is, the government itself will be more and more reliant on these databases for one good reason they're FOIA proof. Ooh yes no freedom of information now So why does the FBI want to do a dossier? They can let you these guys do a dossier and use it You can purchase it legally It's that simple Just so I don't have to invoke his name

2:13:36 I think the only people that actually read the user agreement are lawmakers in Washington. Well, and journalists that are writing about it today but just a quick point to make when you sign up for this app it asks to enable your entire photo album so thats the big question why do they need permanent access? Everybody does it. So how concerned really are they? We're not, we're not. It's convenient. They'll have all your secret pitches. I have news for you unless you live like the Unabomber in a cabin in the woods. Wow! You just went deep. Wow! We haven't heard about the Unabomber for awhile. Let's just stop right there so bye now

2:14:15 Yeah, who's been talking about- As I said Hitler. You know? I usually say Professor Ted would be proud but now... Oh wait okay so they call him the Unabomber like you're a crazy nutjob. You would be crazy nut job to sit in the woods to hide from all this! You crazy man! I'm gonna show my school by donating to No Agenda Imagine all the people that could do that. Oh yeah that'd be fab. They own no agenda And we do have a few people to thank for show 1157, Heinz 57. Stop that! Sir Nils Bonneker in Hamburg, Hamburg Deutschland $111 and 11 cents Elizabeth Borosen I think she's a dame is she? Yeah Dame Beth yep hey boys

2:15:07 I'd love you want to go to the what's love and what you do to the moon in back okay? Later Stand the show Ronald Ronald shul 8008 sir John Horner Horner in Bay City, Bay st. Louis got a birthday call out for his smoking hot wife Sarah cozy We got that listed for you And an ITM from an impromptu NA meetup of the Helena, Arkansas local 1360. So a shout out to Sir Rocketman, Baron of the Bay, Sir Terry of Crowley's Ridge and sir One Night in Bangkok! Oh we do have the $108 donation to make a correction it actually came from... Ah yes this is from Sir Spud, Sir Spud The Mighty

2:15:56 Yes, but the mighty explain. I that was a we went back and forth there was a mistake Mistake it was other for the last show so sir spud the mighty It was for him and he wanted to and you wanted to call out some other people who were at the man So it got confusing okay? Well you haven't really made it good in that case Okay, because it was confusing then he called up mostly call items Oh yeah You want to read them? I don't have the note in front of me So I guess it's not good. We still have to go to the next show, to fix or spud them out. I do have the notes somewhere that we'll get to later tomorrow at next show in Nicholas Lindbergh in Stockholm 5555 this is not a big list people although we give a lot of $50 donors which was the theme donation for this show 50 years anniversary of the moon landing

2:16:47 Blake Farrell in Arlington, Texas. Double nickels on the dime Maxine Waters- I'm sorry, I'm sorry... I'm sorry Blake needs an F cancer for his good friend Mike and his wife Yvonne in Benbrook Texas Mike hit me in the mouth several years ago I've been anonymous freeloader ever since no more! So he needs a de-douching as well I have to do these You've been de-douched You've got karma. We need to code those, I think we get so many F cancers... ...I think the shill has to code them on the spreadsheet so that we don't overlook them. Well usually catch em', I don't think we miss too many Maxine Y and there's enough codes on here

2:17:30 Maxine Waters' Gravel 5050 turned another year older on the 18th. How old is this gravel? Gravel is, I don't know and but the gravel said dunkia in Dutch at the end there so the gravel is multilingual Could be. Alright. Andrew Ussink in Greensboro North Carolina The following people will be $50 donors either normal $50 donors or celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the moon launch...the moonshot Andrew Gusick in Greensville, North Carolina. Robert Case in Mill Spring, North Carolina Thomas Tullett in Shawnee Oklahoma is a birthday coming up for his boy Daniel Laboe in Bath Michigan John Knowles, John Foucault Matthew Hawkins and Mabelville Arkansas Dennis Starco Sir Josh Mandel in Greenville South Carolina

2:18:25 Jeffrey Radwin. Jeremy. Yes, Jeremy Radwin. Carl... let me reset the eyeball. Carl Haberger It's funny because I know from like a clip, you know and you say well it says this and i can clearly see what its then. I know your eyeball needs resetting but I need to be able to get you a cue to say eyeball reset cause It'll be in the book, but this is not discussed by your ophthalmologist. This eyeball situation. But I was talking to her over my...I have two neighbors that live next door to me, two neurologists and they had a friend who had a cataract operation and something he committed suicide or something because he was seeing things or something like that. And I said you know- Holy shit!

2:19:24 I said, you get these crazy. It's not like it's not like LSD level hallucinations but you get these just semi-hallucinations where the and my explanation is as follows and the two neurologists agreed with the theory And it is that when you've got a cataract and you're living with this cataract for sometimes years and years to the point where it's just kind of blurry eye, but you still have the two eyeballs working. So one eyeball is doing a lot of interpolation, I'm gonna use that word, Mimi called me out on it, interpolation which means its making images that aren't there because your brain, your eyeball reads as much as your brain makes it see. It puts these images together

2:20:09 And that's why we see the old tube, the old TV tube was you never there is no image on it. Take a photo of one and it was just this stripe of something in your eyeball put together as interlaced Yeah, well, it wasn't only interlace but it was really there's not a lot of info at any one time What was that word you used again? Interpolation what? Interpolate yeah interpolate interpolate Now, that's why by the way and people should know this is one of our turning into a segment. I like it! Dogs dogs could never see the television

2:20:49 When you had old screens, the old screens, the old tubes. The dogs and cats couldn't see that but they can see LCD TVs That's why there are dogs watch TV now If they see another dog they'll bark at it They do all these things they never used to do because there was no full image up there that just stuck stood on there like a picture, like they are today. So it's a different phenomenon. Well your eyeball used to dream this stuff up so when you get your cataract removed and put a clear beautiful lens in there that sees everything it's thinking well maybe there is more to it!

2:21:25 And so it starts to dream stuff up. It's your brain, yeah So you see stuff sometimes that isn't there or you interpret something wrong I was watching a tennis match with Serena Williams and for one split second she had three arms Yeah, this is messed up. She doesn't have three arms and I realized it was just like caught an image of something in the background and my eyeball decided it's kind of you know, it was working so hard with the cataract. It says come on let's do some have some fun! And so it put the three arms on the woman and so I said this is not right. It didn't last that long but if you could be unnerved by this

2:22:07 That's perhaps the most insanest sentence you've just, you've ever spoken. What? Well I'll play it back to you after that...I mean you were like, I can't believe it the woman had three arms and then I was just like wow this is that was very druggie of you ladies and gentlemen John C Dvorak with a c stands for Columbo So where were we? We're at Josh Mandel in Greenville, South Carolina. Jeremy Radwin and NJNK obviously Carl Heberger 50 these are all $50 donors many and there's not that many because we're running out Eric Ferris John Helmer in Shawnee Kansas Ralph Massaro George Wuchet sir I believe in Universal City Texas And that's it

2:22:59 Boom. This was a very short list, so nobody wanted to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the moon shot and it's just a very poor week. Surprise surprise! Thank you Anonymous and other executive producers. Yes surprise surprise Well the irony of all this is that You actually, because less people participated in sending us some value the irony is kind of that you get more show somehow. Yeah you do get more show! And it's like... and you get to hear the story about three-armed Serena yeah well maybe people can straighten that out for The Thursday Show but thank you very much everybody who did come in and help produce episode 1157

2:23:45 That's over $50. Very big thanks to everyone under $50 that is for most just to be anonymous and To Be Anonymous a lot of people take out a subscription that just continues so they continue to support the show We've got a number of them, and please go check them out at Dvorak.org slash N A Alright, quick overview of the meetups. This is something that seems to be working very well for people's overall mental health their friendships and relationships because you can go to a no agenda meetup You can meet people who've never met before People probably would never ever bump into it's a very diverse group And you could talk to everybody about whatever you want and people don't get triggered cuz they're amygdalas are healthy

2:24:33 We have on the books for the 26th of July St. Louis and Portland, Oregon Buffalo New York and Frisco Texas on the books for July 27 Central Florida July 28 August 1st Seattle Washington we still have the Lott Festival in Ravensburg in Germany which I need to still need clarification says August 2nd through 4th that seems like a pretty long meetup Orange County, California August 3rd. Murfreesboro Tennessee August 9th the 10th in Chicago August 18th Victoria British Columbia the 22nd is Charleston South Carolina I believe that's their six-week cycle and then the 23rd is Salem Oregon those are your meetups go to noagendameetups.com to find out

2:25:19 more about these individual listings and if there isn't one there that is near you then you can set one up. You can get it on the calendar and get it going, again its just something fantastic to participate in. I would like to make a comment. Sure! I was offered the flight from the Orange County meetup back which is coming up back to the Bay Area by or Barron, Mark Tanner. And I have to mention the people and mention this to Nadia who's gonna be there. This meetup is on Saturday.

2:25:56 There's no way I can do show prep and then get back to do a show on Sunday if the meetup is on Saturday. If you're going to do a meetup that you want me to attend, even though I'm not gonna attend any of them except maybe one or two, I will do this Southern Silicon Valley one shortly which hasn't been set up it has to be on Thursday or Friday nights otherwise it's just not possible to do the meet-up and do the show. Yeah really unless you do... Show is more important Now where would this meet-meet-up be? It's going to be in Orange County somewhere. You can't just stay there and do your take your mobile rig and do it from there? No, I spent all day Saturday doing clips. Oh yeah, I got you. I mean i could do the newsletter on Friday but then as clip day I gotta do all my clips and they gotta produce the clips...it's not possible! It's not even close to being possible. Yeah that and John and I have a little different schedule um different time zones help a lot

2:26:51 I am prepping throughout the week. We both are prepping throughout the entire week and I pretty much have a puzzle that I get up Thursday and Saturday and Sunday mornings at 5 o'clock, five thirty-five to be exact for some reason Then I start assembling everything so that's when I record the clips That's when I put packages together with the outline, the show notes and so that takes me up until 11 a.m When we start the show and i'm usually working right up until that deadline When i'm in Europe I can get almost everything done

2:27:30 on Sunday and I can start a little bit later. I start at 10am and then until 5 in the afternoon before we start the show, basically they're 12 hour days for me outside of producing but John's schedule which has been for a while now, is he does all of that production work Saturday. Sends me his clips I guess they come in here around one in the morning two in the morning Sunday when you go to bed you got her better on midnight I think typically yes right and then you get up at eight whoo whatever I wake up yeah sometimes I will I like the idea of having everything done and then not having to do a bunch of hurried-up clips in the morning which as I used to do I used to get up earlier

2:28:14 Because then you know sometimes I want to produce a clip, then I'm going to spend more than five seconds doing the clips. I want to edit it or do something that makes it sound with some extra oomph and every once in a while. And I can't do that in the morning, and it mostly like gets me up too early and I'm groggy... Yeah so not your thing! ...and also like to look at the current news because I got busted a couple of times for breaking stories that took place that morning. Yeah you didn't know what was up. So yeah, and I will occasionally send in a late clip but its rare. For context we probably play between 35-40 clips on every single show We have 50 or more Every single show

2:28:55 Go make 50 clips, come back and tell me what that was worth to you. and maybe we don't want to know. Also, happy birthday today to Buford K., he turns 58 Sir John Horner says happy birthday to his smoking hot wife Sarah Cozy she'll be celebrating tomorrow and Thomas Tollett says happy birthday to his son who will be turning 15 years old on the 26th Happy Birthday from the staff in management and back office here at The Best Podcast In The Universe

2:29:37 So we have one nighting, one daming. So that means we need the male and female swords. We got them! That's right! Carolyn Blaney! Hog story! And Simon Lebezuski, step right on. Both of you are about to join the illustrious group of the Knights and Dames at The Noah Jenner Roundtable for your contributions in the amount of $1,000 or more It makes me incredibly proud to pronounce the name Dame Carolyn of Hogtown and Sir Vick Knight both of you are welcome here at The Noah Jenner Roundtable We've got hookers a blow rent boys and Chardonnay we've got extra coffee and hot sauce pot and vinegar not good enough

2:30:18 Good enough we got kebab and Persian wine, harlots and haldol, pepperoni elves and pale ales cowgirls in coffin varnish breast milk and palpum sparkling cider escorts ginger ale and gerbils bong hits and bourbon And mutton and meat, it's always a fan favorite. Go to noagendanation.com slash rings and enter all your information so we can get those out to you as soon as possible. Welcome to the Roundtable our brand new night and our brand new day. Thank you for your courage and thank you for supporting the show We Can't Do It Without You! and it is incredibly highly appreciated All right, so two things here. I got to run down the thing that's still kind of happening boiling is this ship seizures that have been going on in the Persian Gulf. Yeah i'm glad you're tracking that because I was listening to the BBC and they were kind of poo-pooing it a little bit they didn't seem like all freaked out and war

2:29:37 So we have one nighting, one daming. So that means we need the male and female swords. We got them! That's right! Carolyn Blaney! Hog story! And Simon Lebezuski, step right on. Both of you are about to join the illustrious group of the Knights and Dames at The Noah Jenner Roundtable for your contributions in the amount of $1,000 or more It makes me incredibly proud to pronounce the name Dame Carolyn of Hogtown and Sir Vick Knight both of you are welcome here at The Noah Jenner Roundtable We've got hookers a blow rent boys and Chardonnay we've got extra coffee and hot sauce pot and vinegar not good enough

2:30:18 Good enough we got kebab and Persian wine, harlots and haldol, pepperoni elves and pale ales cowgirls in coffin varnish breast milk and palpum sparkling cider escorts ginger ale and gerbils bong hits and bourbon And mutton and meat, it's always a fan favorite. Go to noagendanation.com slash rings and enter all your information so we can get those out to you as soon as possible. Welcome to the Roundtable our brand new night and our brand new day. Thank you for your courage and thank you for supporting the show We Can't Do It Without You! and it is incredibly highly appreciated All right, so two things here. I got to run down the thing that's still kind of happening boiling is this ship seizures that have been going on in the Persian Gulf. Yeah i'm glad you're tracking that because I was listening to the BBC and they were kind of poo-pooing it a little bit they didn't seem like all freaked out and war

2:31:16 It was very the PBS. None of these things are too out of control, but let's play the background here which is ship seizure. I rough Jesus is the worst thing it's the eyeball man thing is wrong reset the ball Tensions in the Persian Gulf have escalated sharply today, with reports of Iran seizing two oil tankers. Britain says one was British flagged and the other a Liberian flagship operated by British concern. The vessels were stopped in the Strait of Hormuz and diverted to Iranian waters. Tehran confirmed the first seizure but denied the second.

2:31:56 Earlier, Iranian officials also denied that the U.S warship Boxer destroyed an Iranian drone yesterday They denied the drone thing and they had this guy on PBS News Hour, this Jarvad Zarif who's the UN ambassador from Iran. And they did have a little discussion with him there's some information is a long clip but there's information in here I think that's valuable i think we should play it. Minister Zarif thank you very much for talking with us good to be with you again Let's start with the downing yesterday by the United States of the Iranian drone in the Strait of Hormuz. President Trump says that this was just the latest in a series of provocative and hostile acts by Iran, is that how you see it? Well first of all to the best of our information we didn't lose any drones yesterday

2:32:52 So it doesn't look like that they shot one of our drones. Maybe they shot one of their drones, the reports said they probably somebody else's drones but provocative? Even if it were our drone we are in our own neighborhood A naval vessel is about 6,000 miles away from its shores. So I would ask you who's... What's wrong with you man? Don't you know who we are?! Being provocative The Trump administration official line is that the US is not looking for war with Iran Do you believe that? No, we didn't come to the Gulf of Mexico They came to the Persian Gulf Now they have to watch

2:33:38 that they should not undermine our sovereignty, our territorial integrity or our security. And then we won't have a war." You've been saying this week Mr Minister that if the US...that Iran may be prepared to change the course of your uranium enrichment? No we're not! We are not. that we negotiated with the United States. It doesn't matter which government of the United States because the outside world considers the government sitting in Washington as representing the United States. There is a provision in the current agreement

2:34:24 that is in 2023 we're supposed to ratify the additional protocol which requires us to put all our facilities under UN inspections for life. That would be permanent and it would also require the United States to lift its sanctions by Congress permanently That is a provision that we already negotiated. He wants to do better, he can implement that provision right now and rest assured that Iran will never produce nuclear weapons if that is his objective, he can do it now 2023

2:35:02 We are prepared to bring that forward. We need to go to our parliament, our parliament needs to ratify it we could bring it forward so that President Trump could make history by making sure that the relations between the two countries would change forever Wow! Let's do it Yeah I didn't know that That sounds spot on That's, first of all the Iran nuclear deal was never ratified by Congress or anything. It was a piece of paper promised from Obama it wasn't much more than that so bleh! But if this guy is saying hey we'll in perpetuity have everything open you can check it won't build nuclear weapons lift the sanctions

2:35:52 Sounds like a great idea. I mean, this is what an olive branch! Move it forward from 23 to 20? But the problem is Saudi Arabia and I think Trump has put too many marbles over there including troops now going over to stand by because that's what this is all about It's the Saudis any Iranians they hate each other at a fundamental level Yeah, well fundamental fundamental the religions are disparate. Well I call that fundamental yeah fundamental fundamental Yes damn well maybe maybe he's holding this on me He has the president has said consistently hey we want to talk We wanna talk to him yeah, he's one of the few that actually will go talk to people it stepped in North Korea and

2:36:42 Well, this to me is almost a no-brainer. Except again what do we do with Saudi Arabia? Let's you and I think this through because part of Saudi... But Saudi Arabia doesn't want Iran to be a nuclear power! They also don't want them in the oil market I think they can both be in the oil market, but maybe it's just the oil. But they're not too big players. I mean Saudi Arabia still is a big plug with a big dog. I thought we were at the Big Dog now Well, yes we're pumping like crazy but I think in terms of reserves. But our reserves usually count include the shale and all the rest of this stuff. I don't think we have just a raw oil as much as Saudi Arabia. I'd have to look into it. I don't know for sure now. That's a great clip! I'm keeping that on standby because the guy is very clear he saying it right there hey we can fix this right now you want to be hero let's beat be a hero and by the way

2:37:41 I'm pretty sure that Trump gave operational control of that region to the Brits, right? He said hey you guys take care that you guard that. We're no longer operationally controlling anything in that area if i'm not mistaken. It's possible yeah. I think he gave that...he said okay Brits it by the way we have no real dog in the hunt other than protecting the damn Saudis for some reason Now even after we know that all the 9-11 hijackers pretty much came from Saudi Arabia some for some reason. We're still Protecting there's a reason we just don't know exactly what it is now. There was a shooting in Tokyo Can I just stay with? With that for one second because I can do right into the 9-11 victims compensation fund with the follow up to my To what we talked about on the last show also, this is very much all right. This is the Jon Stewart yeah

2:38:35 Yes, the Jon Stewart... Changing the debate. Yes he consistently has called it The First Responders Fund when it is the victims compensation fund that's for much more than first responders as we're about to learn This is very much a third rail, like talking about if you talk about Jeffrey Epstein and how possibly there's an agency it may be Mossad. You know we didn't really even say it but that's in your were anti-semites Jew haters you know you talk about 9-11 your asshole although Many people yeah, I think Carly pretty plus more on Twitter She got what? I was trying to say and said hey. You know there's so many disasters that take place You know Katrina or the BP disaster you know where does the compensation end for those people well much quicker much shorter notices And so why why is this fun not only been in place according to I got some numbers here follow-up numbers

2:37:41 I'm pretty sure that Trump gave operational control of that region to the Brits, right? He said hey you guys take care that you guard that. We're no longer operationally controlling anything in that area if i'm not mistaken. It's possible yeah. I think he gave that...he said okay Brits it by the way we have no real dog in the hunt other than protecting the damn Saudis for some reason Now even after we know that all the 9-11 hijackers pretty much came from Saudi Arabia some for some reason. We're still Protecting there's a reason we just don't know exactly what it is now. There was a shooting in Tokyo Can I just stay with? With that for one second because I can do right into the 9-11 victims compensation fund with the follow up to my To what we talked about on the last show also, this is very much all right. This is the Jon Stewart yeah

2:38:35 Yes, the Jon Stewart... Changing the debate. Yes he consistently has called it The First Responders Fund when it is the victims compensation fund that's for much more than first responders as we're about to learn This is very much a third rail, like talking about if you talk about Jeffrey Epstein and how possibly there's an agency it may be Mossad. You know we didn't really even say it but that's in your were anti-semites Jew haters you know you talk about 9-11 your asshole although Many people yeah, I think Carly pretty plus more on Twitter She got what? I was trying to say and said hey. You know there's so many disasters that take place You know Katrina or the BP disaster you know where does the compensation end for those people well much quicker much shorter notices And so why why is this fun not only been in place according to I got some numbers here follow-up numbers

2:39:37 According to the Los Angeles Times, the fund has already paid out $38 billion dollars to 9-11 victims. Someone else reminded me that back in the day this was also quietly called the Airline Bailout Fund The reason for that is if you took money from the Victims' Compensation Fund, you signed away your right to sue the airlines or participate in any action sued against them. The airlines... not everyone took the Victim's Compensation Fund money and did sue the airlines. There have been billions has been paid out but the fear was amongst other things that you needed to have

2:40:22 this fund in place, otherwise the airlines would have been bankrupted and they might not have ever gotten out of that hole which would've been another issue for I guess our national security and our transportation security etc. So hate all you want on me, i'm just trying to give you some facts We have two short pieces of testimony that are pertinent to this fund and where all you've probably heard on the news is, That asshole Rampaw doesn't want to give money back to first responders! There's a little more behind it. Let's find out first

2:40:58 about the program... Okay, there are three changes as this is about to be re-upped and these changes are extremely important. And I think the reason why some people are questioning to what end? five years of the fund, from 2011 to 2016 we had just over 19 thousand compensation forms filed. In the last two and a half years we've received 28 thousand more and the reasons for those I think are three The first is that there is a significant increase in the number of claims being filed on behalf of victims who have died as a result their 9-11 related conditions As we get further away

2:42:04 from the attacks, but as the seriousness of the illnesses become more apparent we see more and more these claims. At the end 2015 we had just 600 deceased claims We now have well over 2,000 of them The second thing is that the number of claimants with cancer conditions continues to increase. We have found over 8,800 claimants eligible because of a cancer condition and we have made over 7500 awards due to cancers In 2015 we had seen only a fraction of that number

2:42:40 And the third is that we are seeing a substantial increase in claims filed by the survivor community, those who lived worked or went to school in the area. In the first five years of the program survivor claims were just 14% of the awards that were made Now they account for almost 40% of the claims that are being filed. And we think that's due to two things, the first are the increase in cancer rates and the second is that the VCF suffered from a significant information gap in the early years of the program. Many many people in the New York area were under the assumption that the program was only for first responders and as we have been able to do more outreach, as The World Trade Center Health Program has been able to do more outreach

2:43:25 partly because of the reauthorization of the bill in 2015 we have been able to reach more people who are sick, more people who are dying and those claims are now coming in. So there's some new information in there that I was not aware of that cancers are, if you got cancer and I guess you can then prove it was from 9-11. By the way let's not sue Silverstein or anybody who had asbestos in the buildings, you know let's forget about those give it from the American people! And I think that's what The Los Angeles Times is trying to say is that even though the initial budget was 7.6 billion they've promised all this money to people and its totaling up to 38 I think it's higher than that billion dollars

2:44:07 The way that they calculate a lot of these, it's also I guess it's fair but is it really? Calculate these payments. So if you were a fireman and you died on 9-11 You were making $35,000 maybe $40,000 a year. They will calculate what you would have made at that same level over your lifetime adjusted for inflation and that's the payment to your widow or your descendants If you're a hedge fund manager, you already understand what happens some of those people some widows and orphans received seven eight million dollars

2:44:49 For a life, but because that life apparently was making more money It's worth more than another life that went in on almost slave wages to go and save people so by itself I can understand where there's anger from John Stewart But it may be middle of misdirected And they think it's unfair of him to focus it only on the first responders. So the second clip short one here is How many do they expect to enter the program because it is now open-ended as it stands? That's why Rand Paul is saying, hold on a second. How are we going to pay for this because it specifically states in the bill this does not fall under the pay and go system and the paygo system says

2:45:29 If you are going to pay something out, you have to show where the money is gonna come from right away. That pretty much means you're gonna have to scrap something else and that is excluded from this by law in the language of the law so how big can it get? How many more people do you think could be at risk of developing 9-11 related illnesses including cancers in the next 25 to 50 years and is it possible to know the exact number of people who develop illnesses at this point in time It's not possible to know the exact number, but based on the rates that are increasing there are going to be 10-20 thousand more cancers I would estimate. 10-20 thousand more cancers? Yes Plus other diseases? Plus other diseases and as we heard about sarcoidosis which is a fairly rare disease but it is common in World Trade Center exposed individuals We're going to see folks who have

2:46:24 Lung diseases that may require lung transplants. There have already been a number of individuals in the World Trade Center health programs that have required lung transplants due to scarring of the lungs from the glass and the concrete and everything else that caused a reaction in their lungs So as an order magnitude you said what about 30 40 thousand maybe? You know it's hard to predict but based on the rates, and the number of folks that were exposed if that numbers is accurate There you go. You're paying for it seems so seem so I find it to be yet, I didn't know was so broad Well, I didn't know that anyone who gets on Stewart gets cancer 20 years later can still claim that It's a 9-11 related. I don't know cancer rates are on the rise is all I've heard Across the cross America across the world will pay for it with that somehow no

2:47:25 Healthcare changes could make a difference in that regard. And I think that may be taken into account, so there's two clips they have left to have the final clip but they do have this mass shooting clip. That's another example of democracy now playing a story nobody else plays or at least an element of a story nobody else plays but then again they don't go into it So I have no idea what the hell is going on with Indian guys Tokyo, Tokyo mass shooting in Kyoto Japan 33 people were killed Thursday after a man burst into an animation studio doused the three-story building with a flammable liquid and set it on fire Police arrested a 41 year old man after the arson attack

2:48:05 on the Kyoto Animation Company. Witnesses reportedly heard the suspect shout, they stole my ideas and they copied my novel because police arrested him if convicted the man could face the death penalty." Well that's the first I'm hearing of that! Yeah. I didn't know he was claiming copyright. Yeah nobody else reported that they just reported it some maniac goes good gun control Wow Yeah, but now there's no details. What's the details? I mean somebody must talk to this guy what did he do? What specifically did they steal? No, I don't know. There is no reporting there. It's well...I guess it's kind of worth it Would have been nice to know like I guess maybe someone will come up with something somewhere somehow So you have any more clips because I do one finishing clip. I think we wrapped the show nicely I'm ready to wrap if you are sir

2:49:03 So this is Walter Cronkite in 1969 and it's kind of an inspiration, at least to me. This is an inspirational commentary because we didn't talk about the moonshot today because not really something... We've talked about it before and it was a celebration where everyone made a big deal about it so I found this one clip that I thought was you know it addresses concerns It's got an element of futility that I think applies to you in particular Okay And I just found it very inspirational because this is a 1969, this is Walter Cronkite talking about the late takeoff of the moon shot. The Saturn V rocket. Reporting now from CBS News Apollo headquarters at Kennedy Space Center correspondent Walter Cronkite

2:49:48 They resume the countdown on schedule, two minutes after the hour which puts them three hours at that time and 30 minutes. Three hours and 30 minutes from launch time 932 AM Ever since they first rolled this Saturn V out of the Vehicle Assembly Building right by us here at the press site 3 miles from the launch pad put it on that big launcher to take it out To the pad things have gone exceedingly well with the flight of Apollo 11 There have been only one or two small glitches. Oh, thank you! It was the adrenaline shot I needed to come back and do it all over again on Thursday. 1969 The first glitch bullcrap statement by Walter Cronkite Thank you very much Nailed it Just a glitch Who cares? That will do for today's program Episode 1157 of the best podcast in the universe

2:50:52 Proud to bring that to you and do it all over again on Thursday. Please remember us and support the program at Dvorak.org slash NA so we don't go the way of Mad Magazine. I'm coming to you from the frontier, Austin Texas, FEMA region number 6 on all governmental maps Here I am saying in the morning everybody, I'm Adam Curry. And from Northern Silicon Valley, I'm John C. Dvorak Coming up next on No Agenda Stream we've got hog story number 32 eating birthday in celebration of Dame Carolyn and thank you to our end-of-show mixers Gallop Tom Starkweather and Sir Comfrence Until Thursday everybody Adios Movos! And such

2:51:48 Were we in time with the Zephyr or what? We started the whole thing just as the Zephyr appeared. It's a 10 car train too for some reason I've kept seeing these ten car trains for the last week and i'm thinking As I've been looking at these trains again, why are they ten cars all of a sudden there always been eight 1, 2 ,3 4 5 6 8 bars It's not burn I'm telling you i am hearing it honking and i think its gonna well i mean i can hear the honk from Amoryville this horn they got on these things Seffer Right in time perfect Perfect im so happy Its going to be a good show

2:52:28 There goes the Zephyr right on time. Woo! I mean, there goes the Zephyr. There goes the Zephyr by the way just for your information. Go on. There goes the Zephyr! Oh perfect timing Thank goodness there we go. Omar, she is a really pretty. She's beautiful! All I heard was... Why do i dislike you? She would be a model in...

2:53:13 She has gorgeous features. Yes, yes I want everyone to spread the word to all of All of your friends, all of your neighbors let everyone know that if they need a cool place to be they can come here. You know just if you can just stay cool. Get some fans to stay cool Some people just don't know where the turn to stay cool The summer scorcher turning downright dangerous Look at these temperatures triple digits And in some places the scorching heat and humidity are going to get worse On the hottest day of year People are not the only ones feeling this heat So our utilities which means well you're gonna feel the heat

2:54:11 Today the feel-like temperature in half the country will be over 100 degrees. No relief for 190 million of us this weekend! I think right now we're going to challenge our infrastructure unlike anything we've had in years Over the next few minutes, I'm gonna see what happens to human body as it starts heating up Wear loose fitting clothing Use little spritzes Water on your face works Cold showers cold bath If this hot weather continues It's going to turn out to polar caps and the whole wide world. In the future, it's going to be harder and worse... Are you ready? From this day forward is going to be only America first! We choose not fuck you

2:55:15 The best podcast in the universe. MoFo. Dvorak dot org slash N A. We'll have more on President Trump's latest racist remarks