The Christmas Show 2014

00:00 Last Minute Charlie works for me. Bogative holiday season from FEMA Region 6 in the capital of the drone star state, Austin Texas. In the morning everybody I'm Adam Curry It's the king of sales it's not bogative. I'm from Silicon Valley. I'm John C Devorak. It's crackpot and buzzkill. It's bogative. Sales. Sales yes wait wait wait i have um Yes you know is it's bogative in the sense that we this is another

00:43 Yeah, you know I had those up north and I didn't bring him back. No I brought mine I brought mine and I brought Well, I brought my little kid Merry Christmas slave Yeah, it's Merry Christmas to you John. Well Merry Christmas to you Adam merry Christmas to all the food and the ships in sea subs in the water and the bays and bottles out there This is a although it is a regular sequentially numbered Episode this is yes good on the math It I believe me I checked three times You did very easy to it to mess this up This is a special episode that we are producing for

01:27 Christmas why are we doing this again? We're doing it so we don't have to work on a Christmas which falls on one of our show days Yes, and and the thing and of course I promote this Commonly every year. I bitch and moan about it actually that no one's listening in nobody's there There's nobody out there, so you might as well just do this we do so we did this show earlier and the pre-christmas And actually we did this last Christmas. Yeah, yeah and we did. We did! And we thought about maybe doing a clip show or sound effect show or all these different things that could have done but I think maybe just a little catch up for people that are new listeners

02:09 that know about the show, they like the show and enjoy the show but maybe have missed some of the memes or some of the history and don't really want to go back and listen to 600 shows. Do we also want to explain a bit how this show was put together? Yeah I think so! We can do that... I saw you came up with clips which is good, of course i haven't heard any of them. Seminal clips, I think they're seminal. They are old most of them. Some aren't that old, couple years. But Some of them are seven years old, six mostly. And a couple things...

02:48 Are these clips that you have saved did you go back in the archives and listen to shows all the clips? Yeah, I save them. I also put it together little files of little evergreen clips Mm-hmm that apparently had put the guy forgot about this until I started digging around a little clips of things that annoyed me oh Okay, so I put him in and I ended it gave me a, I now have kind of a story to tell about some of the how the show developed and in different way than our people out there who wanna know about this show in the background. You go dig up Show 200.1 and probably even better is 200.2 which has 200.1 in it right? And it gives us the story of no agenda but when you

03:37 When you look at it as a historian mining, data mining. Some of the origins are different than are in 200.1 and 200.2 including a clip I have here which I'll tease which is I believe the origins of the show, The Modern Show not to show that we first started. The show we started was you and I talking to develop a show. It's almost as though the early shows, which are dreadful to be honest about it and I would not advise anyone to listen to them. Someone tweeted the other day they were listening to The Daily Source Code from July 7th... what year did we start? 2008-2007

04:25 It was a very old daily source code. And on that daily source code, I was talking about reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman which was a recommendation from you which I'd forgotten that you would recommend that I read that book and I think that is where a lot of our initial conversations came from before we even started the show. Could be. I do know that the economic hitman is we do have sacred texts, we mentioned to each other. And confessions of an economic hitman come to mind and also...we actually never put together a list But I also think the movie or the series TV series 13 episodes of Rubicon. Yeah is seminal Legacy of ashes legacy of ashes and also the book The family secrets, you know, I think that's very important to read your book And we should probably put do I think it them no agenda Book Club has most of these books listed that we've talked about over the years

05:25 I'm currently reading a book called The Hindus, which is the one that has been banned in India. Oh really? Yeah it's a very long book by a very famous historian Wendy, I can't remember her last name you can look it up while I am talking and she wrote this... she started to write just a book about the history of Hinduism and the Hindu people And then it became this huge book because she fell into a rabbit hole of sorts. Wendy Donninger, she's very famous now she's hated! She used to be considered one the great...

06:01 I think Westerners who really understood India what she did they got everybody pissed off and by the way this book is, I would recommend a Kindle or anything. This book is such a...she is such a good writer it's just she just drags you right through this the text in a breezy fast-paced manner very modern but apparently what she did was decide to take a look at the Hindu people from the perspective of All the Hindus. Until now, only the Brahmins got to tell the story. And the Brahmins, they're putting up with this. In other words she's talking to untouchables about their past history and how they came about and all the rest of it...and this is not acceptable to the Brahmins who run India? So they banned the book in India! Of course! They should burn them Well actually they're buying Epcots and doing probably just that Whatever the case is, this is a tremendous book NoAgendaBookClub.com is pretty current Here are some of the titles

07:03 The next war Wesley Clark the Republic of imagination which we discussed recently We have Oh a parent's guide to high-functioning autism spectrum disorder. I don't know what that is doing on the list Sinclair Lewis it can happen here, of course excellent life and death in Shanghai Family Secrets. How about Smedley Butler's book? I don't know, but currently i'm reading a couple. I'm reading obviously Babbit which is just... Yeah Babbit's good. I'm also reading and it's on Kindle the Unabomber Manifesto and other essays by Theodore Kaczynski. How many times are you gonna read that? Well the other.. It's the other... You know

07:52 Funny enough, this is probably my third time. And every single time I go through it there's a little thing that I go hmmm... But it's the other essays that I was interested in and they're quite good. I don't think there are really any others. That was how he got caught. Most writers know your writing is fairly distinctive. Right his brother recognized him. His brother busted him because he said wait a minute! I'm using ourselves to death is on our list. There's a couple of them, I think we already covered the key ones

08:33 I do have a few clips to play and we can then wander off in any direction we want since this is kind of show just for fun. We're not going to do a lot news deconstruction in this particular show, when we started doing the show it was like...I look back on these as two people trying to get used working together more than anything else and I found that they were both quite offensive To each other most of the time throughout I think the first two or three years It's a miracle that this show is as good as it is at this point. It's a miracle We even do the show, I want to as you will point out many times a Show 100 I said now let's stop doing this. That's enough 100 episodes is good man. Good run

09:21 You were thinking about it again in the 200 show, but that didn't get as far. But the 100 is when you want to actually dig that up and look for the formative clips in there. It wasn't that interesting. Let me look at this list I got these three Now here's one. Now, here's an example of say I wasn't you and i've always told people this that people And you were still a european at the time in London You were living in london? And we're doing the show and I in the pacing of the show because there was a Lag that was well We also have to recognize the um the improvement of technology Well, I'd like to talk about it later But technology when we first started was we didn't have nearly any of this I think I had

10:05 I barely had broadband where i was living at the time. So we did, we had a huge delay on Skype... It still sounded good! Well, that's how it sounds now but it still sounded good Do you have a clip I can listen to? Yeah, here is what I want to give a couple of examples misinterpreting each other and I was easily offended because, even though...I broke out of it pretty quickly because I knew that your pacing in your speech was going to have a lot of Dutch influence. Which can sound rude and sarcastic when it's not

10:42 Correct. You have to deal with that, but you can't and you normally have a visceral response to it and here's a good example I want you to play food cut down now this was from about 2009 okay? I'm reminded of a story Says you know in California a lot of us eat a lot of hot chilies and although not necessarily as much as some of us do who are really kind Of addicted to the chili, and I'm quite comfortable with the hottest imaginable food excess some places in India has served food that is Excruciating and maybe too much for me, but it's what I mean Brazil. Oh your profession John Let's just be honest. I mean let's just call a spade a spade doing what? And I need to point something else out

11:34 Um, in these in this period I was also smoking marijuana all the time. Yeah and I think that you constant references to Patricia I might add Oh really? Yes yeah I didn't notice it until I started going through what kind of references this is how he would just bring her in as an anecdotal bounce bounce back kind of thing and partitionist should it wasn't you know it was I didn't notice it at the time obviously but uh I noticed it is the same way I refer to Mickey Yeah, since you're always doing this I guess. Now... and I just smacked my lips So he but here's the thing about that clip which was I was fuck is this guy insulting me? Now if you play food About the hot pepper challenge This is the complete clip and this brings us into by playing the complete clip This brings me into the segue

12:34 As to, well I'll play myself being more dickish. But the clip after this is going to introduce modern no agenda. Here's what really happened on the hot food incident. I'm reminded of a story that says in California a lot of us eat a lot of hot chilies although not necessarily as much as some of us do who are really kind of addicted to the chili and I'm quite comfortable with the hottest imaginable food except some places in India has served food that is Excruciating and maybe too much for me, but so I'm in Brazil. Oh you're a professional John Let's just be honest. I mean let's just call us spade to spade doing what your professional suti yeah

13:22 I'm a foodie, yeah. So anyway so by the way to think about chilies for people out there who want to say what's the big kick? Well besides you get a little endorphin hit but you can see what happened there You had interrupted it just throw in this call a spade a spade thing and it was like about something else but it became awkward and it took me forever to get used to this While that clip was playing I was like there is book and I am trying to find here in the bookcase that is about the Dutch speaking English, specifically. This is well known when Dutch people... even if they're English it's not even the grammar! It's just the intonations, the pacing, it's the cadence and I have to tell you sometimes Mickey will say something and I'd be like

14:14 And it still hit me for a minute. Well, you can't not let it hit you. It does hit you but which is the problem with that and I brought this up on the show numerous times about the Scandinavians and Nordics and Dutch and most of these this whole area has this problem And I try to explain it to people, if you're going to travel in these areas. People are just very honest everyone's honest they don't have that much sarcasm and they're honest and when they say something they mean it They're not being sarcastic when they say they want to go bed with you But thats not actually sex? They just mean to go to bed or sleep? No but its not

14:54 ever received properly because it's so flat and bland. Blunt, blunt I think is the word yeah. That you'd think this is what is she some sort of... What is she trying to tell me? You know you get offended by it because it sounds like the person being sarcastic or if you even ask them to go to bed and they would say yes I'd like to go to bed with you At this point in my 50th year I'm not too picky Well, I'm just telling people that especially the younger guys who go there just to believe them you know then just don't take Don't pay any attention to the cadence this brings me now

15:32 finally understanding what you were talking about when you were being sarcastic about, let's call it spade of spades. I don't know why even threw that in but you did. That must have been from me listening to something else? Yeah! I get very influenced by other people sometimes. Whatever it was...I snapped out rather quickly but now here is an example for me the big shot trying to get...I listen to this clip half dozen times going What is the point of this clip? The way I was trying to...I had, I guess something to say. You had a point to make and you weren't going let me finish and now wasn't gonna let you finish and it went back and forth and back and forth. And then you finished with a piece of information that indeed would get...you knew I didn't have this information and you kept trying to stop me but I wouldn't.

16:21 I was relentless, and you threw out the piece of information. And this, I believe is the genesis... Oh okay! ...of the modern No Agenda show that has become so popular and what we do—and the joke of it is when you hear at the beginning of the origins of No Agenda, their little comment that you make is, We don't talk about the news on no agenda." You know we don't usually comment on news stories, but you know this story that's been whipping around the blogosphere about The RIAA apparently some lawyer in a court in the court case stated That making right copy of his CD That would be by the way. This is my this is my PC magazine column for this week by the way and

15:32 finally understanding what you were talking about when you were being sarcastic about, let's call it spade of spades. I don't know why even threw that in but you did. That must have been from me listening to something else? Yeah! I get very influenced by other people sometimes. Whatever it was...I snapped out rather quickly but now here is an example for me the big shot trying to get...I listen to this clip half dozen times going What is the point of this clip? The way I was trying to...I had, I guess something to say. You had a point to make and you weren't going let me finish and now wasn't gonna let you finish and it went back and forth and back and forth. And then you finished with a piece of information that indeed would get...you knew I didn't have this information and you kept trying to stop me but I wouldn't.

16:21 I was relentless, and you threw out the piece of information. And this, I believe is the genesis... Oh okay! ...of the modern No Agenda show that has become so popular and what we do—and the joke of it is when you hear at the beginning of the origins of No Agenda, their little comment that you make is, We don't talk about the news on no agenda." You know we don't usually comment on news stories, but you know this story that's been whipping around the blogosphere about The RIAA apparently some lawyer in a court in the court case stated That making right copy of his CD That would be by the way. This is my this is my PC magazine column for this week by the way and

17:16 Well, let me just see if we're talking about the same thing. Yeah, we're talking about the idea that if you rip... No wait! Stop! No stop John no I'm doing my research listen to this Listen to this it turns out that the this started in a Washington Post article written by a guy named Fisher, I believe. I know! I know...I refer to this article and then Steve Weldstrom at the Business Week and a few other guys that come out and say, nah it's just Bull No way no no no This doesn't..No you're missing it Listen to me now Let me finish the sentence

17:54 He only, he only cited half of the quote. The quote that the person from the RIAA made was if you rip a CD put it on your hard drive in a shared folder that would be deemed illegal and he chose not to quote that part in the article That you didn't know Well, okay. Yeah but that's a big deal! They have been skirting... it is a big deal for this particular episode That right there was the start of the... I'm concerned But this is because well there are couple of factors One you..I am sure also there was... I was at Pod Show were you working at pod show at the time? You smacked your lips yes

18:49 You probably thought I was a bimbo. To some degree? And I think it triggered a lot because that's where you said, you know, it's not that difficult to just get the full quote. It's not that difficult to go read the legislation. It's not that difficult and did all this stuff that nobody else was doing more than I was as for sure and they got me doing the same way we co-developed, I believe, co-developed in No Agenda thought process

19:30 Which really you need more than one person to pull it off. Right, because both of us me more than you probably tend to get suckered a little bit by mass media because I'm actually watching more of the... You're watching junk! Or deep news. You either watch junk, junk, junk which is I'm talking reality TV or deep news. I watch deep news but I watch mainstream media which is very... So I am more susceptible to the messaging than you are because the messaging in junk TV is eh, it's pretty low end. To me its...

20:08 It's like Maury Povich. There is messaging in there, but it's not really affecting the politics. I really don't watch TV. If I have TV on and it's either CNN or C-Span those are the two that I find most valuable and really the funniest. C-SPAN is just funny. It's funny people show up and it's all the people who are also on C-SPAN, but then they show up with Brolf and it's just funny." And I'm only trying to find out who the sources are or people say or the numbers...and there was around this period when we were talking about in the show when the Lisbon Treaty

20:49 was being voted on, voted down by the Netherlands and... Yes. And you were all over the Lisbon Treaty and you started reading it. But I think this particular incident, I'm believing especially because of the irony of your first comment we don't talk about the news on here because now All we talk about is, now we're doing deconstructions of ourselves. This is a deconstruction of the show which is kind of what the theme of this show is but it's all we do as we deconstruct news, talk about news look at news and then analyze it to get our thesis which is that the news is manipulated and controlled by forces that aren't healthy to the public at large

21:35 That's what we do all the time. So this clip marked the change from, we don't talk much about the news but... But meanwhile here is something I found that was manipulated in the news Yes and that was, I believe is the genesis of the entire show And especially with me interrupting And with a really crappy sound, I'm sorry that doesn't sound good at all. It sounds horrible but then some great but it sounds horrible if you compare to other podcasts at the time and it's old yeah before he had all this let's say four one 2008 or 1 4 was in January fourth? I think it was January for 2008 Yeah, we just has begun that was early on or maybe this for when I don't know

22:22 Whatever was it was that was the I think a moment that it was important It was also probably the moment that I realized that I could impress you with some knowledge that I had being a bimbo Yeah That's really all I John. All they really do is show up You know you keep see I like sure to make you laugh That's all I try to make you laugh or impress you with something and get a laugh out of some of it yeah I'm always impressed by some of the good stuff. That was a good piece you had there, that simple little thing and we could have actually if i wasn't so stunned... You don't sound that stunned actually Well I was pretty cool You know yourself Yeah well he got me there What's interesting about this show over the past seven years into our eighth year

23:16 Your situation has pretty much been constant. My constant has been my situation is being always in change Yes, which is fine Which is the same your situation is constant too? But I think that I think it's good. I think It adds I feel well nice Yeah Now, back to that Washington Post thing. If the show was being done today and we had...that would have played out differently you would have just I said, well, I wrote about this. What did you find out? Because I know you'd have something and you'd have this little thing about the shared folders." Then we go deeper from there because at that point instead of being stunned, I would've thought about it and said that's not make sense to me and I would've explained

24:06 Why the quote was misquoted wasn't done. I'm looking back on it, I don't believe it was done on purpose! I believe that like every other piece of journalism we get today from people that don't know what they're talking about... They're just professional journalists he didn't see the importance of that little piece. He was just being tight, he was just cutting...so what? To him to the writer, he was thinking so what, Sherrod Folder where we as people who are somewhat familiar with the technology actually more than somewhat, we would have said that's very important which you did say

24:42 And he left it out, but I would argue that's because he didn't know and he just left it out because it was convenient to do so. Or even an editor could have taken it out which is very common. And you know what's this? It's not important boom off it goes. What I'm realizing here if you watch any podcast too in fact I'd say it's probably more prevalent in podcasts where multiple people are talking, but certainly in almost every interview you see or hear in mainstream. People are listening to reply not listening to comprehend and understand and what I think I've certainly learned is

25:21 is to listen, to understand what you're saying. Not thinking of the next thing I can say or how can I jump? Or pile jump is what I call it. This is very hard! It's very very hard to listen to what someone who's trying to say not how am I going to reply to this. Well in a normal conversation and I think you program yourself for this... You have to listen mostly to reply because you're in a conversation And the skill of being able to listen, to comprehend and then thoughtfully reply which takes time. You have to stop you can't get into a nice back-and-forth and you can't be a quick witted comic by doing that. You have to think about what they said if that's the end do you might not have anything to say in return because you just have to mull it over

26:16 Yeah, that's why I think we discover so much stuff in post. When I get my clip from a TV show or something and then put it on the recorder and then bring it into the computer to edit I'm now, I've got nothing to do but listen to this thing carefully because i'm trying to edit it and then I'll hear things. And then right I play down the show and you will hear something else! Right right right That's why I can catch these little nuances once in a while Which brings me to what we are doing is an art that I think is going away but maybe maybe will have resurgence It's purely listening

26:55 Everybody seems to find it incredibly important to have video along when we've talked about this before but it's good to bring it up again. Yes We presume our audience is Not able to do anything else while they're listening to us and quite honestly three hours You know you it's hard to do that if just sitting down doing nothing unless you're driving commuting I want everyone to have their own visualization. And I think everyone has their own visuals, like a book you know? You put it together and that is part of the art that we're both schooled in. And so when I was doing my first book, I had this idea for a book called The Art of Art. And I thought, well, let's do something with art. So I started out as an artist. I did some work on visual arts.

27:47 I am a Connecticut School of Broadcasting graduate, I'll point out. Him! Honorary. The one honorary degree I got. Well, I did take broadcasting in college. That's why I went to college. I dropped out there for three months and I have, and then went to the Paul Allen School of Broadcasting where I learned my video skills. That was called Tech TV? Tech TV right. It's the same thing but we both knew or know and we appreciate it and I think a lot of other people do even though they're doing the video side of it. The greatness of audio is so important

28:28 Communication. Yes, and it's you know people like you said they drive in their car They can listen to it and people talk about how they're you know Laughing people think they're nuts because we're laughing at something We said mm-hmm in the middle of a drive And with that comes we're also very very good at silence And I love that so much but you can have a moment of complete silence and it's like half a second longer than comfortable And I know people like what's a lag? People like whoa, what and of course we use noise gates To get all sorts of part of our sound which is designed. You know We've been working on that for we're finally at a place where I'm pretty happy And it's so it's it's not dead. I mean, it's all digital So it just zero there's no signal coming out 0-0-0-0 so they're not even hiss if you're listening to it Yeah, I missed the his really well

29:28 I don't know. It's like during the switch over from vinyl to CD, you know all that really changed. The fidelity actually went up even though it got screechy because of some filtering issues that were a problem it turned out and then the hiss was all gone and the hiss was actually the problem with vinyl if you played this virgin record that has never been played before yeah it was minimal but then after you played it and played it and played it and it was sentimental. The point is that we've chosen, and people every once in a while say you should do video! With that exact voice? Pretty much. You can hear in the me-mail and we decided were never going to do video. And there's things people will reiterate this for the listeners who maybe only been listening for a year let's say We don't do video or never gonna do videos no reason to do videos this is much

30:25 a better format for what we're trying to do. Get people to listen without looking at some video image, which is distracting in itself and what's the point? You have two guys with generally speaking if you look at these video podcasts there's two guys many distractive looking like bug-eyed women that are bug eyed and they're looking into thingy going what the hell is wrong with her it's what your thinking instead of listening to her. Big cans, giant cans and a big old mic covering your whole face. It's like wow this is not entertainment! If you're gonna do video I actually said this on Leo show uh and Leo has dropped the cans that's for sure but he still wears those little buds And even though he stopped he tried to go free form for a while without the buds i think because i think he wasn't wearing them a few times

31:18 But he still wears them. Everybody used to wear cans, I got everyone off that because I think free form is the way to do it. You don't need to be monitoring... The only reason you'd do that is if in the olden days you could really make your voice sound really good by doing... Well thank you! I have to monitor everything and somehow this went wrong early with podcasts Because of the lack of technology for real-time recording and producing, the only way you could really do that is to buy a bunch of band gear. There's still not really a setup

31:56 certainly not an analog setup that is meant specifically for the way podcasts are produced. Then you need processing on the voice, which is compressor limiters, some EQ. You need your mix minus like a full back if you're using Skype. You need an end signal processing which again for me is another compressor limiter to create of nice Flow fluent sound because that's how it's done. If you listen to radio, that's how it's done But never no one really ever created the right gear and I really didn't pay attention to it I always wanted to have it in the laptop be as small as possible Gave up on that eventually and just went screw it here's got my big outboard gear which of course became problematic for going on the road but

32:47 Because of that people would just record in GarageBand or Audacity or whatever and then do everything after the fact. And that's... you can't, it is You're not creating a great way to create a product and this way all the mixes Everything is done in real time which is what I've learned to do since I was 14 And we don't have to edit right? You don't want to edit And you don't, you have to do all because people are doing processing on them. It's horrible. Well even in video it's better if you don't add I mean that was reason these just some of this gear was created is for a

33:26 Like the TriCaster and these things, they're all done in real time. Yes, correct. Yeah you want to do it in real time? You get everything set up in advance, you roll the credits, you do all this stuff in real time and then when the show is done... It's done! ...it's just ready to ship out. You don't have to go send it through an edit booth. We'd end a show and someone would say oh we gotta send it to post to fix this or that and people would groan like oh really? We gotta go to post with this Yeah, it's tedious. But I think it's also... You do have a lot of posts which I just never could figure out why

34:04 But you just don't get a good product. And I think the true only way to do it is to do it live, have someone has to have headphones on and which are good reference headphones to be able to hear what is going to be on the show. Yeah no you have to wear your headphones because this is the way people are going to listen to it as on headphones or ear buds. Yeah if there's stuff coming through your headphones that you can't be playing in the studio anyway. You got all the sound effects but anyways so we tell people were never gonna Video because it's just dumb. I think it is dumb You know you're producing the news and got and here's bill, and you know Cairo And he said he's got a play some video that he read he's Produced over the last few days any and you just insert it yeah Okay That's but that's not what these guys are doing they just put a couple of some cans on there had big microphone in front Of their face and it was lousy camera

35:00 and they're in their bedroom. It's just like, come on! This is dumb but people are always you should do that or you can this, you can that, bull crap. The other thing is we don't have guests and I have a rant, I give the rant on the show, if people ask me on the street at the grocery store anywhere I will give the rant. We don't have guests, we're never gonna have guests there's no reason to have guests If we have a clip of someone, or we want to interview somebody on the side. You've done this a couple times and pull a clip from the interview that was interesting and then refer it to the interview people go listen to that. That's different, that's not a guest. And people keep saying to me why don't you do Cranky Geeks again? I always have to tell them what problem with any of these shows

35:57 this happens at the Leo's operation and other places, is booking guests is horrible. They don't show up they beg you to come on the show but then they can't do that date in fact they can never do Wednesday it turns out and then there are people who are begging you to come on their duds people come on they say nothing they won't say anything they're complete duds It's just, and it's a nightmare. It's typically not entertaining in the way that is solved in mainstream with everything from Wolf Blitzer to The Tonight Show is the pre-interview then the pre interview as a producer who sits down with you...it starts on the phone first but with the booker they're gonna find out I mean you can pretty much tell immediately what they really want you to talk about because they'll kind of force that issue? Well actually I've worked with a lot of these operations and

36:51 I'm used to this, and you're right. It's the booker who calls first and they go can you do Thursday show? We're gonna be talking about this in that. And I will say when I was doing a lot of CNBC stuff, I would always say what side do you want me to take? And they'll tell you yes. Yeah, I want you to be against it yeah can you be against it? Yeah create creating controversy I have So people don't think I'm just that wishy-washy good. You know chameleon you flipped off I've often said, no. I can't do that! I can't take that side because that side is so wrong...I can't do it and they say oh okay and then either will bump me they'll drop me completely because already have somebody who wants to be the pro side and go find somebody else They'll do that That has happened a number of times And if you're watching or listening to any type of interview You can often hear the interviewer or the host prompting the guest

37:50 about a question that was, you know, that the pre-interviewer told the host or the interviewer this is a funny story. Or this is the one you want to hit? You want to talk about this and no I mean, you'll hear someone say yeah talk about that trip you made like they talked about it before and of course it never comes out fresh which might as well reiterate we people sometimes don't still don't believe when I say this we do not talk outside of the show Right. Yeah, we always do a portion of the show once in awhile. We do a post-mortem of the show so you know we'll say because we have stuff to do, we have art to choose, we have title to come up with, we have check credits and we talk about crap but very... Mostly gossip! Totally gossip yeah just gossip and no one knows what were coming up like this show I've no idea where your clips are

38:42 I'm also, I want to hear you get to it. I'm not interested in knowing everything which i think is a... Well and I will tell another boring anecdote about my life When I had my big telecom book, which is a huge book that's so light. It was an instant bestseller? It was an instant best seller. They put me on a radio book tour mostly radio stations. I did some TV too but not much mostly radio and so I went from radio... And then I learned a lot you know when I knew enough about radio and I'd been doing it on and off but I didn't realize..I learned a lot this time because I went from station to station the station

39:22 and never fully comprehended how variant these places are. There are no two rigs the same, everybody's got different mics, different setups, different size studios, different gear in the control room, different ways of doing it and it was just everything but that's when I was doing this by the way that's when I decided to work on going freeform which is no headphones, at all and just try to work the mic from experience because of a show I did in Vancouver, Canada which was the Bill Good Show. And he was the talk show guy and he sat you down...and yeah, I'm looking around for the headphones because I've been using them all along

40:03 so I could modulate my voice a little bit. And there was none, and Bill didn't have any on. And he was just, the mic was there and we did the show and it was fine, but that was kind of a freedom thing without being tied down to this stuff on your ears which turns out by the way to be bad for your ears Headphones yeah, hell. Yeah and those little buds are worse So here's an experiment something I want to do you won't be able to notice much of this because the reason we started with noise gates was because

40:43 you didn't wear headphones and I would hear my voice coming back even though it was soft, it would come back through the microphone. And when you have a noise gate you can set a level then you have to really be modulating loudly enough so that stuff will just not come through So I'm turning off the noise gates for a moment here So now I hear all kinds of hiss. Well, you hear the background my studio is noisy and here's the reason so it's mine I have a computer that has a fan mm-hmm I can hear it and The fang starts up about halfway through the podcast because he cannot start to warm up I have a giant window big window overlooking the San Francisco Bay mmm that

41:26 is double insulated, but it is still noise comes through. And you can maybe hear the train siren that's coming through. You can hear me actually breathing and you can hear me smacking because I'm chomping on a licorice because of little tickle in my throat. And occasionally I do like to open the window cause it gets hot in here cause we're in California where we don't have air conditioning which would just make more noise and that would come through. You know what? I bet people are going to say, I liked it a lot better without the noise gate! Leave that off Well, it has more atmosphere. Now that's another thing to consider when we talk about this and this is like maybe a little too inside baseball for a lot of people but there are certain kinds of sounds that different people enjoy now Adam is the engineer of this podcast he is responsible for the sound in quotes

42:17 of the show because he uses all kinds of fancy filters and gear, and then preamp software versions of preamps like the Neve. And all these other things that makes it a very distinctive sounding podcast. NPR has a very interesting sound that is... To be on NPR you have to produce a dead sound which is generally I've gotten through a condenser mic in a dead room. The room has no ambience at all." These are expensive rooms to build? Yeah, I was always thinking...I could turn this into a room like that by putting panels over the windows that are foam- Slanted, slanted panels. There's a lot of work involved and it gives a dead ambient free sound that you can

43:06 go from show to show to show and they'll have this sound because it's kind of deemed the NPR sound, is the sound dead. I never liked that sound! It was very distinctive when it was really dead But it's the ambient, more natural sound to me is more modern. Much like the modern announcers or announcing voice or voices like ours mine more than yours in this case it's not a trained voice right so you don't have a guy talking like this all the time and well Adam what are you doing now? Well John let me tell exactly what I'm doing right now as I puke into the microphone And that to me is a much more modern sound and

43:51 Now, what Adam's done is he's taken the modernness of that and then he's given it a kind of 50s-60s big radio station sound. A little grungy. Grungy... slightly grungy yes. Slightly grungy. Actually very grungy. But this is our sound and... And that's the sound! It's distinctive people could...it's almost like writing styles. Yeah. It's noticeable. Yeah, it's like Phil Spector had his style you know? This is our style I'm the Phil Spector of podcasts. So it's not as though there is not a lot of thought that goes into this, there is in fact a lot of thought that goes... There's one other thing that I need to mention about um..the processing when you have clips when you have jingles and when you have things that are various levels and ambient just sound by itself When you have certainly compressor but with combination compressor limiter You can make more overall

44:47 Kind of a equal sound even though I can still ride everything so, you know, I start the sleigh bells and You know, I can write it down if I want but you can talk over this and you'll be able to punch through Just because of the way everything is set up no matter how loud. I have it So you're never gonna have a situation where something's really too loud blows people's eardrums out which was a big complaint in the beginning of podcasting where people couldn't hear it or they'd be that turn up the volume and then blow their ear drums out. So anyway, maybe enough about this sound. I think that is enough. I have one clip that I brought one clip well then you better save it because I got a bunch of clips but now you want to save it? You're going to blow your clip okay you wanna blow your clip now can I blow my clip on you yeah it's a clip we've talked about

45:41 Let me see when this clip was created. This clip is... okay, don't have- this from 2010! Okay we had a lot of clips in 2010 And we have talked about this clip many times and we always say you know one of these days I'm gonna dig that clip up and play it Do you know what clip i'm talking about? Is it the Feinstein clip? That's the one. What is the likelihood of another terrorist attempted attack on the US homeland in the next three to six months, high or low Director Blair An attempted attack The priority is certain I would say Mr Panetta I would agree with that Mr Mueller Agree General Burgess Yes ma'am agree 2010 How's that coming And her head has gone

46:34 Attempted attack or attack on the homeland in the next six months. Everyone agreed! How come nobody except us even mentions stuff like this? Well, I've changed over time Oh yeah, and got clips to prove it So i'll tell you how I've changed The conspiracy theorist is in me which I still have This is a plot that they're all in I have enough knowledge of how it works and how certainly broadcast networks, and you know things that happen at the top... And how policy is set. How people go along and we don't do that here. This is just not what they do anymore! They don't care!

47:31 What do you mean they? People who work at broadcast networks and news. Oh, no, they don't care. They're just trying to get their thing out and move on to the next thing trying to get... The job! Yeah it's a gig exactly. It's a gig precisely. You don't need to make waves, you don't need to do a lot now that doesn't mean that we're the greatest thing in the world there's a couple of things I just grabbed a few random clips stories that we never followed up on. Okay, well there's a lot... It just kind of like I don't even really get to say oh my god! I forgot all about that and I could have by the way put together a 10-hour show of that We do a lot I think much better than anybody else are trying to stay on this story until it is expired Which usually happens when one of us will say to the other yeah, we're done

48:19 I'm pretty tired. Oh, we've said that and it wasn't still comes out as true often But this one play the Mary Kennedy gang clip remember this oh yeah, right Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s estranged wife, Mary has been found dead at her home in New York State The cause of her death is unknown Her former husband is the nephew of President John F. Kennedy and son of Senator Robert F. Kennedy who were both assassinated In the 1960's Our Washington correspondent Jonathan Blake explains what's known about the death Well, police in Bedford New York which is a few hours drive north of New York City have said that a body was found at home belonging to Robert F. Kennedy Jr and his former wife Mary earlier this afternoon they've not confirmed reports that it was Mary Kennedy and they have not confirmed or

49:09 denied reports that the body was found in an apparent suicide and one news organization ABC News here in the United States reporting that Mary Kennedy was found hanged. And I recall this, well we go after a lot of murder slash death slash suicides because it's interesting if someone of interest dies The thing that you rarely hear, or never really in any mainstream because of the money involved is the pharmaceuticals that are involved in these types of cases. Which I think she was on Ambien or something like a combination of things?

49:50 I do recall us talking about that. Yeah, it just kind of died by the vine on the vine in the end you know eventually now there's other stuff that we used to do and we dropped a ball i don't know we dropped the ball we just got sick of it or we didn't want to really go any further with it or we just didn't want to take advantage of...we've lost a lot of clips that are were always hilarious to begin with and then they never get played again so i run into this one An oldie but a goody play this clip. It's Obama ignorant Okay, there are white folks and then they're ignorant motherfuckers like you Come on classic yeah, I don't think we played that a lot man

50:39 No, but it's one of those clips that you could add to the end of a clip if you wanted to produce it a little bit. Yeah which we also rarely do pre-production very rarely do we do pre production and then a lot of our stuff and this is maybe A moment to talk about The producers which early on we started calling our listeners producers as we noticed that really they were kind of producing They were and I think a lot of people don't realize that that's probably true for all shows Well, the catch is you or the trick is you have to be able to manage the information that is incoming. That's sometimes very difficult. Yeah because you get a lot of bad information we've had a couple of plants I would call them are what they came in and gave us bad dope

51:27 And I kind of fell for it for a while we tend to it tends to fall out eventually and then we could We have good sense. I think the two of us Which is I think a huge part of the show The two of us have good common sense when to believe something and not to believe it's a news for nose nose for news News for nose, I've come along way. I've come a long way towards being rational People say this a lot You know John has moved towards your side. You've moved towards John's side I guess crackpot buzzkill is the kind of the dichotomy we never really intended to be you know Controversial all the times it's not cross talk or counterpoint, or whatever It's called no wasn't the idea red blue Republican Democrat and there was two guys presenting yeah each other to each other

52:18 Yeah, here you go. What do you think of this? Oh that's a good conversation! What do you think it is? That's interesting but did you notice it was this oh yeah no I didn't notice that and back and forth something often we because they were on the news cycle and it's a new show even though we never talk about the news We tend to hit a lot on the same thing sometimes knowing the other guy you comment on this more than I do I knew you were gonna get that. Ah, well, I saw that on there but I figured John would go get the clips because we kind of know what our common interests are and what one person likes more than another. I will do the beauty shows." Yeah! Did you do a lot more than just the beauty shows? But yeah... I'll do the beauty shows and occasionally some things

53:12 There's what I would call the kind of dead money material like certain Obama speeches. I might actually pick up and start recording segments of it with you thinking that I'm going to do that, and then I'm thinking well he's gonna expect me to do that now I'll do it but if I don't do it won't be any loss to the show right? Generally speaking whatever either one of us does rarely is Sem is it's the show itself is a whole pile of stuff that makes the show good not a single item although There's usually at least two items in each show that are revel revolutionary

53:56 Yeah, and I've learned...well it's funny because well maybe I'd like to hear your process. Because i really don't know your process of how you prepare for the show? Maybe it's actually have no idea! Do you take notes do you write stuff down? I've changed and I used to write a lot down as to make prepared commentary on annoyances generally I'll see some of that. It's like my, it would be taking but the notes always would end up me complaining about and I will do it now you go to the line and there is a woman with all their bags these dirty old bags from Trader Joe's and she's hanging everything out because she won't pay 10 cents for paper bag which is a scam by the way they beg just to be free. You know where that ten cents goes? It goes right to the store doesn't go any fund

54:44 So it's a bowl of crap. You can't have plastic bags, you can do this and you have these people that are not even as old as they act in the lines moving slow and taking up a lot of time and bandwidth and everything in between is like dig for a penny or they don't... Most credit card machines here I'm sorry I'm guff Most credit card machines today, you can slide the card once the first transaction is put in the cash register. It says, please slide card. You can read it! It says slide a card. Yeah you can do it well before they're done eating. So you slide the card, you punch in all the numbers, you put in everything you need to put in and then it's ready to go so when she or he whoever it is rings up the last thing on the item and pushes the button...you just- you're done but no I see somebody standing there gape jawed looking at them running through the groceries and they pack everything out

55:43 They stand for another 10 seconds in awe of the whole process and then they put their card in. And you have to wait, and then they won't get it right! And then they can't see there's always a blind person. They've got their glasses looking up and down with their glasses up and down up and down...and then slide again no no no sir just slide once and sliding and sliding and glasses up and down pushing and then push the wrong thing It's unbelievable. Okay, and so how do you I'd be writing notes on this? Okay So I stopped writing notes what I pay now paper paper notes They keep a notebook with me And I would do this while watching TV Oh This is idiotic and I'd write something then that's did You know I gave up on that I'm trying to keep the show On my side of the show to be even more performance ad lib

56:35 improv as it were than ever and what I do is if i don't have enough clips that I will get a clip immediately if I see something interesting. Which you do how? I use a recorder, I use hardware, I have a DVR but its two way, I do a two step process I'm watching some television of some sort and I see something that I want to, I think is a cool clip. So I back up the DVR hit the record button, record that segment turn it off and I keep these like clips on the DVR and then on the night before the show... And you have to do this early to the show because otherwise like this pile of clips I sent today? I don't know what half these clips are, can't remember.

57:24 So you would what I do is the night before the show mm-hmm? And I go through all those pre clips and put them on a on an h2. I There's a I have a jack out of the back of the DVR goes right into a real Digital recorder, and I record those pieces that as it audio to digital or digital digital It's it's its audio analog analog to the analog sound like analog to okay, but analog to digital record Which it goes out analog against and yeah, you just an analog process mostly And then I record them all that night. And then in the morning I get up two hours before the show and I go through the clips In audacity and edit them down

58:05 Then name them and save them because now it's immediate because I know Because I have a lot of clips say 15 clips if I had done this like a week ago Name of the clip. I won't know what that Clips about right right? Because it's impossible to you know, that's why a lot of the clips are very long names So I I said I'm not gonna remember with is about sorry so I try to keep it immediate so the show we do the show again like the oh We were talking about pre-interviews. The fresher things are, I think the audience likes it better so I try to keep it as fresh as possible by moving everything right toward the show and do everything on my last minute basis which is...I'm natural too, as you know. I am a lifeo guy. Last Minute Charlie works for me and also stays fresh. I remember… I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the term Last Minute Charlie. Yeah, Last Minute Charlie that's what my mom used to call me.

58:58 There you go last minute Charlie now when I'm talking about going around doing write that down When I was talking about taking the radio book tour, there were people that did pre-interviews and there were people that didn't. The fresher shows all didn't. I worked on Larry King's show when he was doing radio three or four times and he refused to talk to anybody before the show and he didn't want any pre-interviews. He felt that if the audience doesn't pre-interview you why should he? And if he can get you to talk then it means he is not doing his job.

59:34 Which is my, I feel exactly the same way about it. Because I noticed that when i did the pre-interviews with a number of these hot shots they had you know somebody pre interviewing I never does subjects when it came up by you don't know if you said it or not. I think he talked about that already didn't like and so big, I thought it was this terrible idea and I always think is and that's why I think Craig Ferguson on the late late night show with Eddie does any takes the blue cards in tears him up right at the beginning of every interview doesn't look at the cards which I think are just props now well definitely something we agreed on early on is which I think isn't really why they don't talk to each other

1:00:14 Because all we do, you know unless it's just gossip about one topic that we stick on for sometimes months or years. Just as like our own continuing soap opera whatever it is...just nothing important to the audience of the show if we talk about anything else it will not come up in the show It's like we've done dinner even the newsletter wouldn't you the stuff? You write in the newsletter. I read, you know, you write the newsletter you send it to me and say oh how about this usually I say which I know you hate good-to-go must irk you No, I read it very carefully every single one but then yeah I've read it and then goes out And when it comes in I read it again because I want to see what pictures you put in

1:01:00 And then we never talk about, rarely talk about what was in the newsletter because we've talked about it or it's been discussed or it was on the radar. I don't know. It's very strange. Sometimes it comes up sometimes but not all of them. The newsletters pretty standalone and there's a couple items in there that we... Or maybe say we're going to talk about something and then it'll just vague and that's okay. But yeah no that's one of the problems that I think a lot of people have when they over rehearse its over rehearsing and were not putting on a play I mean, it seems to me that this is just acting at the point where you do a lot of pre-interviews. Okay here's what you're going to talk about... A lot of reality TV is produced this way. Here's what you're gonna do they tell you what to do and then you know you're supposed to ad lib. All reality tv is not real. Here's how it works could you come in the door again? Could you just do that one more time? Do that walk again until there that's your reality tv yeah

1:01:57 Yeah, well Burnett the guy who perfected it with Survivor he said and he did a lot of other shows. He said that he never liked to name reality TV because it's not real. He says it properly should be called unscripted drama exactly and when he said then I realized what it was really all about unscripted drama Cheap actors that don't get any money no writers Perfect perfect yeah unscripted drama in other words I get all the money before we move into into that. I want to stick with the process for a moment what you don't seem to do or Do you don't really seem to save? Stories, or web pages that you want to discuss or I don't really recall you bring that up very much

1:02:51 Sometimes you'll send me a link, but that's very rare. Yeah this is true Which is pretty much the opposite of what I do? Yeah, what do you do? I don't know what you do I know you're not doing what i do that's for sure there's no chance. No, not at all. I wouldn't think so Well let me tell you how we do it now because over the course of four years a system has been built That um that i use Dave Jones and i well Dave jones had all the programming And he has a job just for over the course of four years We perfected it called The Freedom Controller

1:03:28 which is a name that I always liked and it was some product i had 15 years ago and the domain name came free again after, I don't know. I think you know the IRS had it or something...I have no idea what happened I've always liked the name, but it is a system that has an RSS aggregator. That's a big part of it—a really good aggregator that has functionality to immediately tag and save a story from the aggregator itself and save it in an outline format—actually, it's the OPML format without all the crap

1:04:08 So it's kind of like a... what is that plugin for browsers? What was that called? Readability or something, was it called. Yeah! Something like that but its our own version and because its stored in an XML format You can do all kinds of things with it, like search. But you can also collapse it into just the title of the story and move around in an outline If anyone's used an outline or...you should look into it It is a very interesting way to manage information And I'm really bad My handwriting is horrible. I can't read what...I've tried it, I've tried carrying notebooks and lose the papers It sucks! It's just no good And this forces me into a format So i'm just looking at the aggregator and I think I have 780 feeds as a way to make some of them sticky so they're always on top so that I don't miss them

1:05:02 And in that are particular feeds from C-Spam, there's a lot of video stuff that people are collecting that I subscribe to their feeds as even a way to get some YouTube stuff. That's a very good source of just you know stuff that's out there because I can't watch everything what's Meanwhile, I am watching whatever's on the TV here and I have a DVR. So if I see something, I'll roll it back. Uh, I'll record it directly into the right onto MP3 so that I have it direct into the computer. I don't like that as much because I'd rather have a source that people can go to is in the show notes there's always the original video clips and sometimes we'll see something on C-SPAN but will actually pull it from the C-SPAN website

1:05:44 I mean, we're doing this all day long. All day! And it's a bookmark that'll see your story someone will...I get all these emails and i prefer if someone's just sending me a link sending on Twitter it's much faster for me to open it unless you have some story need to add to it And I just click on it. The story opens if I like it, there's a bookmarklet...I click on that and It immediately tags it and saves it then the night before the show we're really Pretty much the so Saturday is an example. It'll happen I'll start around before dinner and I'll start to look at all of the videos that have tagged and then I'm going to start recording those

1:06:23 Cutting down I use fission which is just a Mac product very simple just for editing like you do and I have to transform all of them into 96 kilobits. There's a lot of stuff that I do there, and then I start to look at all the stories and now realize that in the past four days or three days whatever cycle we're on there will be things that i've been alerted too... Or that I found! Or they find interesting and really dive down as deep as I can to find you know I save PDFs and all kinds of things and I spend hours usually until one in the morning on Saturday night as example, marking up stuff and creating a little rundown or story of how I want to get to a point or something that I found. Or you know...I love looking at the form 990s of nonprofits and making connections and seeing who's on where whatever it is! I love doing that and that's really all done in the evening before and then in the morning when I get out I get up 7 so that's 8,9 10 4 hours before the show

1:07:28 Yeah. Um, yeah I know no you eight times nine ten. I started 11 the show starts at 11 here? Yeah oh okay four hour yeah four hours and i'll do another look at the what stories have come in what people have tweeted anything else in the aggregator sometimes there's something big and then after breakfast I'll definitely have CNN on if anything's changed because you don't want to put something out there that has changed overnight. Well, yeah it is embarrassing to talk about some of this changing as we talk about it. And then I have to categorize everything and then put in a rundown of what I want to talk about and I usually have 14 different categories some which are never...we never get too um these are all based

1:08:19 typically on web pages that I've saved or things that i've put together. And here's the cool thing about the Freedom Controller, after the show... ...I really add you know the art, the change in the links usually I do that right? We add our credits and then I publish that and that becomes the show notes Yeah, that's actually one of the coolest things about the show is the show notes. Very well organized which again you're a neat freak I said you were from the beginning and that I think is very beneficial I don't do that, any of that. No you don't have to. And I think it's valid and its good as a contrast we both did that would be kind of know if it would work as well. I use random walk theory which is well known and I expect through serendipity and my being connected to mainstream media and also working for a living actually this show is my living but its beside the point

1:09:21 and being out and about, doing what I do to expect that these things will come to me through either accident or overtly through somebody telling me about it. Or my discovering it Or I look at daily news rundowns to see what's cropping up. And I do use Google because Google is a computerized system that will bring certain kinds of stories up while the better stories are buried and you pick those up elsewhere, and then listen to a lot of C-SPAN and hope they can hit something there. That's actually like going to Reno

1:09:59 or Vegas. Spin the wheel, put it on a number. C-SPAN is a gamble and it's the biggest waste of time that I have. I watch it a lot and I do much better if I go on the C-SPAN website to look at things overtly but I will run into stuff in fact I think one of the greatest clips ever found was the clip I accidentally stumbled upon while watching C-SPAN, while they were talking about wildfires when Harry Reid...I should dig that clip up again. There's a clip we should dig up where Harry Reid drops into the middle of an empty chamber while they're talking about wildfires interrupts a Republican who gladly turns the floor over to him, to the Senate floor to him and he passes the NDA or the National Defense Authorization Bill

1:10:52 In the dark behind, essentially. Yeah he passes it right there we looked it up that was the bill. Oh yeah! Without objection remember that? Yes I do. He without objection and they would slam slam slam with a hammer without objection and he reads a bunch of crap so the bill can't be reintroduced or nobody can say no to what happened And then he walks off the floor turns back over to the wildfire guy Holy crap!! And then the Congress, we have clips of this too where people come out...I don't know how it got passed Well, I do. I saw it past! If you were to name that clip today what would you name it? Oh, it'd be Harry Reid or NDAA or Wildfire...or...I have a tendency to weird...something like Weird Happening...sometimes we'll misname things because WTF is idiotic and I have to break myself into habit but apparently cannot do

1:11:56 I'm just, the only reason i asked him is to see if he could find it. Yeah, be nice of you to find that because that was like wow! And that's the lucky sh... That is rolling, getting a roulette wheel to hit the number you put your dollar on. Now which NDAA was that? 2012? I think it was 2012 yeah So then we get to use one of the cool things if it was in show notes anywhere. We have search dot nashownotes.com which takes advantage of the XML format of the show notes and Let's take a look read NDAA you never know might get lucky Oh, well I have the Show 580 that popped up house and Senate quietly pass bigger and batter

1:12:46 NDAA? Hmm. That's 580, no that's 2014 that can't be right. That might be I mean... No it can't be you know it was definitely a couple years ago yeah well and yeah they definitely and that's also referring to the House and Senate both this is a senate action sorry no joy no joy oh I'll dig it up myself someday Because it's worth playing again. There is a lot of stuff worth playing again, and good example of that is the never-ending saga with North Korea I have a clip here which is one my favorites from three years ago four years ago this is the Hawaii clip

1:13:25 Also tonight, American warships are tracking a North Korean vessel off the coast of China that may be carrying illegal weapons. Meantime the Pentagon is beefing up our missile defense system to protect Hawaii from a North Korean missile attack. A Japanese newspaper reports the north maybe planning to test fire another missile this one aimed at Hawaii on the 4th of July Most analysts doubt that it could reach the islands, but Defense Secretary Robert Gates isn't taking any chances deploying a giant radar and missile interceptors to the Hawaiian Islands. Passengers aboard a transit Atlantic flight... I didn't cut that out you can stop it

1:14:04 This is a fine example of one of the things that we'll pick up on, and it's just flabbergasting. It is flabbergasting what passes off as news and what people will dare to put on the air! And then forces the public to be scared... You know North Koreans are attacking Hawaii? Oh yeah let's bomb Hawaii I mean, what nutcases would believe this story in a million years? But yet there it goes right on mainstream media. Right through the local news. Well you know they played it all over the country and it was just like...it's just a head shaker and that's the thing that really makes it nice to do this show so we can keep pointing this out even though I don't know how good...I mean our listeners enjoy it. It really shows okay

1:14:57 this is what it really is about. If you want to sell something to people, if you want media to be something that people talk about, it has to hit some of the core emotional issues with people. Fear is I think top of the list your children are close second at best Then maybe sex. But fear, it's so easy! Everybody experiences fear and everybody knows it... It is relatively easy to trigger and this is you hear alternative podcasts, you hear alternative shows use fear as a way to grow or the way to keep people engaged. Democracy now?

1:15:48 So everything. Tom Hardman! Really? Everything, because when you're in a ratings game which means you can charge more for your advertising it doesn't matter if you just have to get more ratings it does not matter how you do it I don't think there's anyone who is... The guy who sells seeds Glenn Beck Yeah Who also sells seeds and gold And gold. As the market collapses, it's great. Yeah but even financial shows us CNBC they're always selling fear either fear that you're going to lose out because you didn't sell on time and ride down at the bottom or fear that you didn't buy it in time is gonna go up It's all based on fear of loss of life of liberty whatever or just losing out not being part of the crowd All based on fear we pretty much don't do that which keeps us nice and small

1:16:43 Yeah, it's a cozy little show. But it's also really nice! I am extremely happy... you know? I'm not rich But I was not happy then. And which reminds me, we should mention here and take a short break that this show still does need support even though we do not since the show is pre-recorded We did not have the chance to bring in the and we will do the people who contributed for The Christmas Show on the following Sunday of course So they will all be thanked profusely for helping do The Christmas Show

1:17:19 But we want to remind people, you do have to help us by going to dvork.org slash NA or the support page which is the support page where you can then take out a program of some sort like a subscription or just donate straight up and there will be a newsletter asking for some additional support. Now there's a couple things that we also do in this show which I think this is done by...we're not the only guys who do this. I think we get stuff that is unique necessarily, but I don't check on all the other shows that get humorous clips necessarily to see if you know how they're handling them because it's...I don't want look derivative when i do one. But we get stuff like this and this is an old Ed Schultz, this is The What's Wrong With Ed Schultz horn dog clip where he's trying to say something but it comes off

1:18:11 is a horned dog, this guy. And find workers in the workplace who are basically getting screwed. Now O'Reilly the next time you get on an airplane as I got one on this morning from New York to Washington... As I got one on this morning, I thought about the flight attendants. I don't recall this clip. Oh yeah you cracked it. I'm sure i liked it! Yeah it was a funny clip when we played the first time. As I got one on... Yeah that's good That's good. So we do stuff like that, which I think a lot of people... It's a big part of the show because when you're getting a lot of clips you find these gaffes. There is one here, I have a Sharpton gaffe that we probably haven't played for a long time but it's not the first gaffe that we ever play from Sharpton and I believe the first gaffe

1:19:01 is the one I discovered with the much. Resist we much? We much, no this isn't it this is the one that I think... You know what I have John? This is a good opportunity to play this because this is new! Catch the gaff. That is good, we can use that. Well here's a gaff that is Sharpton again and this was one of the well I think it may have been the second time we caught him before it became obvious to this guy who was just a gold mine for these things. Baywood Watch captain says he shot the teen in self-defense but the young man was not armed He was going back home after buying an iced tea and still its candy

1:19:49 No name calling, no incendiary language. Just the facts a young man dead. The assailant says self-defense what is found on the young man skillets and iced tea probable cause for an arrest I wonder what the gaffe was? Skillet's and iced tea Then we find trends that are obvious to us and apparently to nobody else, which is one of the...this includes the global warming propaganda. And The Six Week Cycle? And The Six Week Cycle which seems to have changed somewhat. We don't have that anymore. We did play it. It was good for a couple years or shows but there was this...I ran into this clip just casually and this is from about four year ago or maybe five years ago

1:20:40 And it was an early economic report on California's is trying to pick up steam. And I guess nobody in the venture capital community noticed this, but it made me... It was interesting to me. This is the clip No Green Jobs. Hold on, I messed that up. Sorry what happened here? Yeah just so people know when John's doing a lead-up to a clip I am scanning his list thinking, what could it be? What could it be that's going... No. He tries to out-guess me and normally he doesn't sometimes like tease in such a way that he can find it with the quick search but often because is like today there are too many clips That's not the problem this is just you said California venture capital Oh yeah no green jobs I wouldn't have guessed that one The forecast says that California's unemployment rate will not drop back to single digits for another year

1:21:37 by a growth in manufacturing, agriculture and shipping and warehousing. Notice something missing? NBC Bay Area's Garvin Thomas is here with what much hyped industry is not on that list and who says it should be. Garvin. Tom, green technology is what is not on the list The author of the Anderson Forecast there says there just doesn't seem to be enough demand for jobs like solar panel installers or wind turbine workers To make a dent in the state's unemployment rate He says that all the hype that green is going to drive the economy Well... It's just not true Until we brought in the subsidies Well, and still it did nothing. Now while we're doing clips like that which is pretty common for the show to have a clip like that We used to have more of this sort of clip which is the chainsaw guy clip This was from a report about some creepy murderer...we don't do this that much But few could've guessed the real truth

1:22:35 Far from being a war hero, Robert Cleason was actually a former mental patient on the run from the police. A compulsive hoarder of firearms, he'd been sectioned for shooting up a hospital and jumped bail in Buffalo New York after shooting a man in the foot. His conflict resolution method is to be violent or to threaten violence He's in love with guns, he just infatuated with guns Unbeknownst to the Mormon community Cleason's past was littered with firearms offenses and odd behavior Three wives had left him, the last when she found him taking a bath with a disemboweled deer. All right so here's genesis of the show which is as we heard in the beginning we said we don't talk about news then and also this technology is part of this being DVR did we have DVR maybe I don't know it was not that easy eight years ago seven years ago just to record stuff just what we didn't have a lot of things we have today

1:23:36 Then we started to ridicule media, funny things. And then we started to pick up on things about although I don't have a clip of it big disclaimers on pharmaceutical products where 15 seconds is what it is and then 45 seconds of disclaimers of all the things that will go wrong with you. I have one example here let's see if I moved over. Yeah we do not do that as much as we used because I don't see anything in your list either. Well, I got a bunch of them here.

1:24:24 What do we have? This one. I'm not sure when this is from, but we'll take it. Imagine the possibilities with Stelara for adults. Stelara helps control moderate or severe plaque psoriasis with four doses a year after two starter doses in a medical study seven out of 10 Stelara patients saw at least 75% clearer skin at 12 weeks and six out of ten patients had their plaque psoriasis rated as cleared minimal at 12 weeks. Stelara may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections some serious infections require hospitalization before starting Stelara, your doctor should test for tuberculosis. Stelara may increase your risk of cancer always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection or have had cancer

1:25:07 Alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures confusion and vision problems. These may be signs of a rare potentially fatal brain condition serious allergic reactions can occur tell your doctor if you or anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine with four doses a year after two starter doses it's Stelara! 22 seconds of information all the rest is disclaimer and we would ridicule a lot of that I think from my perspective At a certain point, I just...it became so easy for me to look at something that was news and even just looking at a map and say oh hold on a second this either makes no sense or now i see what's really going on. And it's just a little bit of research which-I'm not schooled as a researcher, I have no college degree um It's not that hard you just have to do the work! And be prepared to hit a dead end

1:26:03 Yeah, which is most of the time. A lot of the time yeah a lot and then we have a lot of really good people who do research and send stories and ideas We have two guys from The Netherlands actually who posted to the Noagena News Network another site that are really it's part of I think all my feeds are in there all 700 feeds that i'm subscribed to flow through there And a lot of those are from producers who create RSS feeds and you can add your own RSS feed automatically. You don't need any permission to do that Those guys sometimes will do 20-30 different links a day all quality, all great stuff And then I get things sent through email with explanations and viewpoints Now a lot of times it's nothing or no good but a lot of times is really spectacular

1:26:57 Like the instance, the reasonable commentary by the Canadian producer who mentioned that Warren Buffett is the trained guy and he's making money off of oil coming in from the Alberta tar sands. Along with Bill Gates! And Bill Gates owns a Canadian rail, you know? He's the biggest investor in Canadian Rail. Did you know that? Yes. Yeah, yeah So he's got the Canadian rail and Buffett has the other one so heck with the Keystone pipeline who needs that It is going to cost them money Now I have a clip on here it says are you fucking kidding me And you don't know what its about Also believe or not there an app for apes An outreach group for orangutans sent iPads to zoos

1:27:44 All over the country, the primates are using them to paint and color. Scientists hope that they'll eventually Skype with apes at other zoos. So this was a stupid idea from the beginning and if, and the mainstream news people, the corporate news people whatever you want to call them advertising they tell a story straight without any thought whatsoever. The first thing I would say, why aren't the apes just busting these things up? Because that's what apes like to do. Wasn't it at the time and this is another thing we catch on to wasn't that around the time of The Planet Of The Apes movie? I remember when deconstructed that actually this week catch it. We probably the only podcast or news analysts ever that connect the dots on these movies

1:28:43 I'd say 99% of the time. We miss him every once in a while, we do a whole story on something and someone says did you notice that there's a movie? You know it was like doing a thing on selfies and then all of sudden... It's the TV show! There is a TV show, selfies AND Kardashian has got a book coming out on it just her own selfies This probably where we need to briefly discuss for people who haven't heard this from us before this how the news is put together There really aren't people...just look at the headlines. The New York Times is trying to fire up, well pay off 100 people. Everybody's cutting staff. There's just almost they are only trying to either... In fact before you go on, the New York Times, you just mentioned it, you dropped a...you opened the door five years ago there was the Times reporter clip. Hold on a second.

1:29:40 See ya, got it. He was a, this is a guy homeless man New York Times reporter that got on the homeless calendar. Somebody put a bunch of guys in you know the calendar on a calendar and so I did and I forgot all about that clip but that to me is your New York Times The Future The New York Times anyway just... So before we get to the native advertising part what really is going

1:30:23 Stories are generated either...and you can see this in tech press, which I think is one of our big pet peeves. It really is the PR company placing messaging creating controversy creating stories like apes and iPads anything to connect it either directly or indirectly or subtly some of them are very very good at it and some campaigns are really extraordinary And it's, and they have all the right elements. You throw it into the machine and it just goes and it has something funny or something interesting but it is connected to some product or something that is being sold. That is 90% I'd say 90% of your news is based on that because how are new stories chosen? Who does that who chooses it? I ask you well the way it depends if it was a newspaper or broadcast outlet

1:31:18 And the smallest market broadcasters, the news stories and everything is chosen by one of the Broadcasting talkers, one of the talking heads. He just picks stories usually from The New York Times and there's a...there's kind of an unwritten rule in radio that if it's not in The New York Times you don't really report it unless this is very special local news that isn't a local paper. You do anything outside the box at all. Do you think that still an unwritten rule? I have my doubts. Oh yeah! Really?! Yeah, absolutely And except on the Fox channels, obviously. Well any morning zoo does so-called news and they're scanning... Yeah but that's it I'm talking about news not talking about show I'm not talking about performances okay in the newspaper there is a big they have a big meeting I'm sorry just interrupt it is exactly those performances though that creates the virality of a lot of these new stories I think

1:32:15 I believe they're part of the virality. I'm not sure what creates it initially, something does good morning zoo guys listen to each other's I don't know where they talk no doubt they'll listen to each other they probably hear from people that listened to all of them but we also we know what our what our producers want to hear we pick stories that we think they'll like and we're picking we're choosing well that's essentially what is done in broadcasting on kind of what you call it, alternative outlets. They tend to pick stories and but this interesting to us, you and me all

1:32:53 Also, it's not as though we're just...what do you think these folks would like to hear? That never works out. You have to kind of entertain yourself but anyway back to the newspaper. The newspapers have meetings and they have an editor-in-chief who is at the front of the whole thing. They bring in the chiefs that are head of the city department, the city desk and all the rest of them there's about maybe eight or nine people And then they start pitching stories, what they want to run on their section or if they wanted put it on the front page. And the editor in chief makes the final decision and if it's a bad decision then an argument will ensue and they may or may not relent generally not but they can and they will occasionally. Then they decide on what is going to be in the paper that day and they will... The right wingers that have been critical of mainstream media

1:33:45 excuse me, they have always said that it's not the lack of objectivity by the reporters because the reporters are objective as best they can. Let me get some water and a spiel anyway so they...they...they right-wingers have always said if you listen to their theories about what's wrong with the media it's the selection of the news that is that slants it to the left. There are always, you know, certain kinds of stories or...you know, the ones that Republicans are always bad and the Democrats are always good stories and you end up with a kind of structure that you have today in the olden days when the papers were all owned by right-wingers and then managed by Democrats at least than newspaper owner

1:34:41 would come in and... And influence, yeah. You don't think that still happens? I'm sure that still happens! No everybody's now the papers are all owned by left-leaning corporations And the corporations, they don't do that anymore. These large corporations as far as they're concerned it's a product that either makes money or it doesn't and if it doesn't make money why not? What do we have to change? Native advertising and that's where native advertising is making its headway in places like The New York Times The general electorate definitely doesn't give a crap. They actually promote the left-wing agenda with their shows and their networks I don't know how long this is going to go on because i don't believe that comcast people that took over the NBC network are gonna continue to put up with this unless they're a bunch of

1:35:36 crazy liberals, it doesn't make any sense. What do you mean put up with what? With MSNBC NBC all this left-leaning... It's a very slanted network. It's left! It's the leftist network I mean the MSNBC is a perfect example they just slam Republicans for whatever they do it's actually pro Democrat more than even Left. It's not even progressive It's just Democrat, Democrat, Democrat. Hooray for the Democrats." That is very boring to most people including Democrats and nobody...no Democrat listens to that. If you're a Democrat, you don't need to be told that you know you're great if your Republican, you don't need to be told you are great but they keep telling you you are great as though I don't know what the point of it is. Is boring. It's very boring programming. They'd just be cheerleading. Cheerleading is bad journalism

1:36:29 Right. Well, there's a lot of that... Yes it happens and you're dead on in technology right now is almost all cheerleading. And we had some guy that wrote us a letter the Russian guy He says, I would give you some money but that's my guess. That's best i can do for Russians uh...I'd give you some money if you know because you guys have seen that the Russian anti-Russian propaganda is what it is. He wanted to donate for specific segments and he said if we did a segment on Russia We don't do segments! It's another thing. The show doesn't has an unstructured show kind of

1:37:06 No, it's very unstructured. We have an opening... we have a closing... and a closing! We have weather and news on the 8s... We've asked people to go to devorek.org slash NA And we thank everyone who contributed a certain amount of money to the show to keep it going I don't see any other structure there is no structure to the actual content It's headless. It's Headless Drupal. Oh man, way ahead of me on this. And her head is gone. There we go, Headless Drupal. Yeah yeah I'm well for me that i always have so when we do our shtick you know we go back and forth yeah there's structure to that because we've been working together but it's like still a comedy act that is you know the structure within it only based on experience

1:38:06 I mean, we create structure on the fly. But if anyone examined it show after show after show it has no structure. So it's segments in other words. Which is another thing that I believe was part of the success having done very low budget work with radio and television that seems like there always had to be a producer. A producer who was either collecting or aggregating, or feeding whatever it is and we...and also making decisions about when to cut something when to move on We are both and where each other's producers which I think is really that to me is really key And it may not always happen on the show It may happen afterwards That we say oh no that wasn't good that was too long Or this was outstanding whatever it is

1:38:55 I'm not having that another element in there. And people offer all the time, hey we can produce this for you and we can do this...no no no no no no. We'll do it all ourselves please let us just do it ourselves." Yeah, I am always baffled by these podcasts that have staffs. This is 2014-2015 we're coming up on This model has changed, especially the audio model has changed since 1905 or 1910 when amateur...when first radio started being produced and coming out. And it became a huge hobby and then it became commercial and then the big networks formed. I'm reading a book right now

1:39:33 from written in 1935 on advertising and radio, and it discusses all the formation of NBC and the NBC Blue and Red. What's it called? What's the book called? It's called like Advertising & Radio. I think I found it on archive.org. I'll send you a file if you have a Kindle that you want to read it on. I'm reading it and it talks about all the, like the gold network. It was used to be in California tells us about all the networks how they formed and how they you know why CBS became so successful is because at one time NBC was when you joined the NBC network either the blue or the red and there was...I think that colors related to what part of the country they were in not...and I think some areas they ran simultaneously but there were two networks separate

1:40:18 The NBC, when the networking first came out or the network idea first came out you joined the network and then NBC would pay you like $50 to air a show. A half-hour show, mystery show at such and such time. And this became as things progressed this became a huge problem as CBS realized when they watched what NBC was doing it differently. NBC had a flat rate So a guy in Omaha with the 500 watt station... Would make the same amount as someone. Same amount as some guy with 50,000 watts and the 50,000 watt guy couldn't afford to put this show on for $50 because he had big...

1:40:59 It was expensive. This gear was not cheap. The fuel to power a 50,000 watt and the energy to power that transmitter is the biggest cost. Yes huge amount of cost and the overhead of the whole operation so and NBC couldn't figure this out. So these guys weren't running the programming and they had the biggest outlets with 50,000 watts you hit a lot of people and so they weren't giving the money per person, they were just giving them to him per station. CBS did it differently on a per-person basis and so what the guys made out of a lot people defected. A lot of NBC affiliates said screw you I'm gonna go with CBS and i think that actually to this day CBS has been smarter than NBC. And I think these all started back then because apparently these guys were boneheads! And I think they still are...I think its just a bonehead network

1:41:53 Take that into the staff. Yeah, exactly Anyway so it's a good book to read It's kind of just because it's got a bunch of old radio info in there and this is how they did the early days How it all be how it coalesced? into Eventually morphed into television but they don't have that part since the book was written in 35 The future was bright Well we Don't really have staff per se We do have a lot of people who help us out with a lot of important things Besides producers who are part of the global intelligence network, who are sending stories. We're low budget and we use volunteers. Volunteers like... people like to volunteer! And a lot of people... and we give praise to people. We don't have any trouble giving credit where credit is due to all the people that help us. Void Zero running the whole infrastructure which moved change actually when Mr Oil came in

1:42:56 Gitmo slave, they started to run the infrastructure and now that is pretty much all run or it is 100% run by Void Zero in there Netherlands. Right we actually pay for the bandwidth now? Well we pay yeah we have monthly bills for servers and bandwidth. Void Zero has does not receive a salary He's just, of course when things are running then you don't have to do a lot but he's always improving and continuously making things better and just trying to up the ante. It was really important! And sometimes it's a shitty job when stuff doesn't work right. And chat rooms and streams and all that stuff running... Then we have Paul Couture who has set up the NoahGen art generator for us which is

1:43:46 You know, and he just did a revamp of that. And that thing's been running for a long time which is critical for our album art. And again we like to credit him, we like to credit the artists who do that all things that I don't know why other people don't really do stuff like that? I'm always surprised it seems like such a no-brainer you get some new artwork every single time why not yeah if we have artists said they'd like to do...I mean most artists were into anything they liked it produce art there I was talking, watching. I went to the Adobe thing and they had a bunch of different artists and this one guy did giving large speeches about their stuff and how they do it what they like to do and how they use them products And this one guy says

1:44:31 And I talked to my friend up the hill here, Bert Monroy who's a very famous Photoshop guy. The guy says he was in school and this kid was in school and he was drawing all the time when he was in third or fourth grade. He drew a caricature of his teacher who caught him doing it and sent him to the principal. So the principal takes a look at this drawing and hires the kid to do all the teachers! So the kid ends up with an early gig. And Monroy says to me, yeah when I was a kid, I was just the same way in class. I wasn't listening, I was just drawing 24-7. Artists like to produce art and they need outlets. They need as many as they can. Sure they like paying gigs but this is stuff you knock out which is the thing for you. The same goes for jingles

1:45:26 Sir Jeff Smith, who has done an enormous amount of jingles for us over the years. And I want to mention something about creativity if you're a writer and artist or the jingle maker whatever You yeah? And I was told this actually a couple of times in my career If you don't hold on to anything you cannot hold back you have to get Every creative thought or idea if you want to write your after you got to get it out of your system Or you I know it sounds corny, you get clogged up. And all of a sudden you're going to just be clogged up. You can't do it! You've got constipation. You won't be able to draw, you won't be able to write, so these guys... Most creative people know this and they come with the no agenda jingle and they can't keep it

1:46:17 in their brain because it'll just start clogging them seriously. So they do the jingle and send it to us. We have John Fletcher doing all those shouts for us, which is just... Oh, Fletchers? But he didn't think he knew that skill! I mean that skill is astonishing It really is. Really is quite good I mean play a couple of them you can't nobody else can do this Let me just get to get into the folder here, but we have a lot So the the classic of course is this one And we have another one we like Oops sorry that meant this one And another favorite

1:47:02 Now, this all stems from my suggestion that somebody out there do a Hogan using Putin. I don't think many people know Hogan's heroes anymore but... I know but there are few and it is mocked. The Simpsons mock it so they do that Hogan, you know, Samson, they've done all these. It's not completely unknown to people who watch TV. And I think we got a number of Putins, but Fletcher stuff is just so above and beyond anybody else's. It's ridiculous! And we don't thank secret agent Paul enough Let me give you the list of jingles he has done for us Adam's pet peeve Clip Of The Day F Cancer Words Matter Open Up Mr Curry Open up Mr Dvorak Diane Sawyer Drunk Again Just A Dude Named Ben Grand Duke Pelsmacher Jingle Rubalization

1:47:58 Shill alert, let's see... Donation for Grand Duke David Foley. That guy does a lot! Yeah they're all good too. There is a lot of talent out there and uh- There it is you said yeah no got it now I knew you were gonna do it Oh I think I'm trying to rewind to catch myself. Yeah No. Yeah No. Yeah I can catch it now that was good you caught early enough It was still in the memory banks as it was fading. And why are we policing each other again? We police each other because we're susceptible to memes that are in play, in the society at large that are used not to really communicate but to kind of either pad or at some point annoy

1:48:56 I'm not even sure why we're doing it, now that you mention it. Except that we both know it's healthier not to be using these phrases and terms that are in common use And then they won't be in common use to sometime in the future and we're going to sound like two guys talking in a 1930s. Hey, you mug! Hey... You know that kind of thing? Well this kind of comes down to what I think the real benefit of The No Agenda Show is besides giving good laugh which always hope if you got laughing at least once during an episode then I feel we failed If you wake up with the blues trying to fill your day with news there's one thing you must remember no agenda in the morning

1:49:35 For a healthy balanced news diet, try noagendashow.com This is really what we leave for society I hope It's bad for you What you're seeing on television reading in the newspaper reading online it's not healthy to be continuously provoked into fear or whatever other motions are being played upon you and hopefully...I see evidence of it people are not only enjoying our take on things which as often a lot less scary When you know that, hey these guys may not really be beheading people or they're kind of you know they're not really gonna have these floating Toyota's that can fly.

1:50:14 like a ship or anything like that. They're gonna get you, but also people... I got a clip for the next show that's one of these where they come on with this and it's our government! Oh the American soldiers have to be careful with social news here in this story. With social networking because the ISIS people are going to kill them in the street they're going to knock on the door and kill him yeah And they even use the word kill as like annihilate. There's some specific word that you slaughtered. I have the clip too, so now... Slaughter? Okay where did you get the clip from? Got it from, I don't know France 24. We should both do it we should both clip because I have a different source. I never watch France 24 Yeah thats another thing, we do have different sources for news My sources tend to be RT, France24 and Al Jazeera along with sometimes I'll go to Fox and Beck

1:51:08 The blaze. That's because it's right in between a couple of stations I saw, it's right there! I get it. I want to see what Dane is talking about. Channel placement is very important and no... I do see CNN and I don't know what but I see evidence of people developing No Agenda thinking which in some cases extremely advanced certainly when connecting movies A lot of people are getting very good at that But just understanding that what is being said is bullcrap or manipulative and a part of just an unhealthy diet. And when people start, they tweet it, they email it... Oh you know I've had my No Agenda producer thinking cap on and I realized this is bullcrap." And if you don't do that, I think one of the reasons we get so much support because everyone knows how healthy it

1:52:03 And if you don't do that, you could end up like this poor bastard. The guy who did the Coney movie. The man behind the popular online video calling for the arrest of Ugandan rebel leader Joseph Kony has been detained and taken to hospital in the U.S.. Jason Russell and his charity Invisible Children made the film, Kony 2012. Witnesses say he was seen naked and screaming at drivers in San Diego in California His group says that controversy surrounding the video has taken on emotional toll on Russell

1:52:44 Several residents in the neighborhood were very concerned about a male that they described as a white male in his late 20s that was acting strangely. There were various stages of undress that were described, you know that he was wearing underwear or that it was naked, that kind of thing... That he was running into the roadway, that he was interfering with traffic screaming and that kind of thing. Officers responded to the welfare check did contact the man and he was no problem for the police department however during the evaluation with him we did learn that we probably need Yeah, the Lord's Resistance Army. You know that we- This can happen to people! Do you know that we have Osprey now looking for him? So called looking for him

1:53:37 No, I didn't know this. Yeah in March. I think we talked about it. 2012! The video was Kony 2012 and we still haven't found him We've got hundreds and hundreds of troops looking for Osprey with a tilt rotor aircraft Uh-huh yeah yeah can't find him yeah okay let's see what else we got there's there's a number of things we seem to lose track I think this began in 2009, so this is a 2009 clip. And this clip is the SF Foodie event clip and you set it up with...I heard this and said, I don't quite remember maybe we didn't even play this clip but then looked at this event that's still going on even though sounds like some sort of yuppy fest not yuppy, hipster fest dreadful in many ways

1:54:36 But it's something that, you know... A lot of things we do start. We try to track give up on because it's a dud or dead end or shouldn't have been brought up in the first place this maybe actually be one of those types of clips should have been brought up in the first place but played anyway. That's right! This new event is taking over The Bay Area's foodie underground where both home and seasoned professional chefs compete for the title of San Francisco Food Wars Champion And joining us in the studio is SF Food Wars creator and founder Jeannie Che, along with our own Bay Area Bites blogger Stephanie Rosenbaum whose cookie baking skills were put to the test in the I really don't remember this. Really? Play it! Food Wars latest competition

1:55:23 Now Jeannie, how did you get the Food Wars concept off the ground? This is the sixth event that we've had. This was a fifth event and we're working on our sixth now so basically San Francisco is such a wonderful city for food in general but when it comes to events they tend to either be free... In general! They talk about it's a food event where they have competition who makes the best cupcakes as the punchline which is like cupcakes were like the hipsters idea of what kind of store to start. You know, follow the cupcake thing? We have a lot of cupcake store in the country failed that most of the cupcake trucks, there's bunches food trucks selling cupcakes and we have them here. Yeah. Cupcakes who wants to eat a cupcake as it is a starch bomb but how does this fit into deconstructing... This is something that oh yeah I mean we didn't talk about it or we did and went away and probably for good reason

1:56:16 That's what I'm thinking. All right, well that was a dud so let's see what are we oh here's one Here's one this is another thing that We kind of talked about it kind of came and went It's like every other bull crap thing we've seen in this country from hands across America which by the way was gonna end homelessness back in 2002 I don't know when that was but it was awhile ago 2000 Hands across America yeah, I remember yeah. Oh, yeah, I was gonna end homelessness Well, then there's this one which is just as stupid and you and I think this is still in play But we don't talk about it much anymore earth hour. Oh Yes This was a couple years this this went on March 27 830 p.m Millions around the world will turn off their lights for one whole hour all over

1:57:04 To the gate, to the gate, to the climate gate. an oldie but goody. I think we've correctly identified that this is an initiative that no longer works or is they have the focus and communication skills have had to shift, to pull this one over on people then now that there's no longer just a few outlets. And we are of course very critical of

1:58:00 man-made global warming, man made climate change 400 parts per million carbon pollution poison gas and that is it. And maybe this is why we...words matter! It does matter. This is probably why we're so anal about our own use of words they matter. They really really matter to go from carbon dioxide is creating greenhouse gas to it is poison gas, is an unbelievable leap. It's astonishing! Yes And also we do the words thing I really

1:58:38 was happy when the public speaker sent us this email saying, you know you guys are always hung up on saying this or using the word essentially. Or basically would you? It started with basically it started with basically yeah and then we did ya know thing which I maybe I can now catch which is good and some of these other well it was awesome amazing but we don't use words start easy to stop But when you start noticing it, or fact of the matter which is now truth of the matter. You start hearing it when you were listening to other...when you're watching news and see the fact of the matter, the fact of the matter that's true of the matter. And it's a programmatic word, fact of the matter. Fact just the use of the word fact which I believe really if we trace it really started with the Obama administration really pushed that through. Facts are facts this is the facts, everything was facts. That and listen. Look!

1:59:32 Look, listen. Yeah look more than listen Wow we can do a whole show on just those things that we've noticed and the public speaker producer he says this...he likes this because as someone who speaks a lot I guess he does a lot of these types of kind of popular speeches that are given He needs to be aware of this too Because he can't be up there saying you know these commonplace...these communism's or whatever you want to call them constantly sounding like an idiot. It's amazing, it's amazing, it's amazing! Now if we go back far enough we used to also attack now I think it's just a running punchline now Taylor Swift

2:00:13 You were on the Taylor Swift very early on. Yes, that's when I discovered her father was an investment banker for Merrill Lynch and he moves to Memphis and he did personal... He was a personal one of the guys who did the big accounts in other words, he'd have like a Rockefeller or someone and he would handle what the guy with the big money accounts And so when he moved to Memphis, my belief was that he took over some big money accounts in the music industry and could get his daughter on the fast track which she did. Is this a clip of her talking about noodling? Yes! And so interesting. So she got on like 20, when she got on some specials, she's like 817. It was it wasn't you're right. ABC special on these specials as the whole show and I'm thinking this is some sort of public relations thing that is outrageous and it's just a it's a would they in the

2:01:08 Print media they call these blowjobs. But Taylor's strive for perfection only makes the people who work with this young star respect her that much more There have been times where I've played a solo and then she'll say well can you kind of do this? And she'll sing me in melancholy, and I'll incorporate that and That's very impressive for someone her age The problem that I was having with the solo is that it like it's getting a little noodley. Um, I'd rather be like Less notes That would be great let's try it again. I remember ridiculing this and

2:02:13 I think I was wrong to ridicule. Well, we were transitionary...we still ridicule to an extreme and- But actually felt she sucked. I actually felt it was bad. I had antithepy against her just now that I hear that- I don't think she's...I admire her as a business genius And a marketing freak. I like her poppy songs, I like that. I don't like her songs...I like the outfits, I like the dresses, I like the makeups No that's all marketing! That's fine, she dresses well She takes advantage of her height, she is very model-ish She changes her face and hair all the time so she has kind of a low end version of Gaga in terms of changing her look Not that she doesn't go crazy or wear meat

2:03:05 But yeah, no I think she's... Yeah, no, Baize did it again. Wow! Okay. Well... Okay, you... okay, uh... I'm trying to think of some way- You catch it earlier and I can almost catch myself. I'm trying to understand why? What is the thought process behind doing that? Why...? Just smacking my lips I think i know what it is. We're gonna be so paralyzed, I can't talk! It's transition. Yeah, it is grabbing attention and transitioning in the conversation. It's saying...it's agreeing yes

2:03:43 And then I just stupid let's back it up and say this. It's a very stupid thing to ever use yes, no yeah no or whatever it is so I've been teaching my I would say a lot of No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, they heard that in the very first clip where I'm trying to tell you something I go no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm the no-no guy Yeah, your the no-no guy I try not to do know together we are ya know? Ya know exactly Taylor now I did I didn't know what is a way of transitioning And there's all kinds of different ways and apparently that one I got stuck on recently, and I'm not sure where it came from. But okay you can stop me the next few times. I will eventually be able to hear it before as they say it yes you will remember when I was like doing yeah that's pretty amazing

2:04:28 I know that moment that moment will happen with you. No well anyway, she's important she is a genius of some sort and Really is it true talent in that regard? I don't like her songs. I think they're boring I don't do this. I can't even think of one. I can't even think of a melody to one She does not create memorable music She's no Green Day, that's for sure. I can think of like a half dozen Green Day songs right? Alright six start now. I'm not gonna use it again. Think about half an hour for dozens. American idiot comes right to mind as one and five others. Very good well, I think I was probably irks just by the whole rich dad thing and you know moving in Nashville then you know well damn it worked.

2:05:21 Well, it was bound to work. And once you got that special at that early age the ABC gave it up all that time to her You knew it was done It was over with a who's a done deal She's gonna be like a big hit but it doesn't mean I don't think she's been done You know she could have been a big hit and actually made some decent songs But she didn't I don't think I don't know of any Do you think we how long do you think we can? Continue to create this show and continue to do it Well, since it writes itself insofar as the media is concerned and it keeps coming at us. And you never saw the Larry David show? I tried but couldn't get into it didn't like No you can't get into it It takes... You have to uh..You can't! I hated that show until like the last two seasons when you could get into it you could finally he was finally approachable and you should get deeply into the show and then you could go back and it was all good

2:06:18 A very strange phenomenon in that regard. But this guy, he's the one who created Seinfeld and he is essentially a neurotic guy who gets irked by stuff. He's just like an irked guy. Little things bother him. And then he takes it out you know puts on paper and mocks it in various ways And he stopped doing the show, he's done a couple of movies. The show hasn't been on for two or three years but it was after Seinfeld that he had to do this show his Larry Davis Show because you get built up as they clogged effect they talked about earlier He has done nothing on social media Facebook selfies all these new things have happened since he stopped doing the show and so the show will return This is the same thing with us

2:07:08 There's so much material that is created by the mass media and the public and the society itself, that we probably could do this show forever. Because it never ends! It just...we're deluged! Is there ever a moment you got up and thought, ugh gotta do this show? Yeah Really? Yeah I've never had that. I've had it couple times, ugh gotta do this show. Was mainly because I didn't get enough sleep Right I've thought about uh Killing me No, I haven't thought about that. I figured that Mickey would do that. He'll take care of that! I've thought about the benefits of doing this show which is that i get a lot out of this show and find myself thinking more clearly and so as far as I'm concerned if it continues like that then I wouldn't want to stop doing this show because I know that I would start to fall back into

2:08:03 into old ways of... It would be kind of, it wouldn't happen as much but I'd be suckered into something or other. Or you believe that? You know like the woman in... That went to Oregon to kill herself and we discovered it was all... Yeah Brittany, Brittany. Brittany, Kaiser Permanente and then we deconstructed it I probably would have just ignored the story. You're the one who actually brought it up, I brought up the fact that Kaiser likes to... Yeah you related that to your mom? Yeah my mom's trying to get her out of there and make me pay what they are legally obligated to pay

2:08:42 That doesn't happen without the show. Now, is it important? Do I really give a shit that Brittany's up there or not after Kaiser gets to get a little better deal because he talks people into killing themselves instead of them having to care for them? Or the death panels happen? I don't know maybe who gives a shit. I got other things to worry about but I feel better knowing that. Yes, you'll feel better knowing that this scam that these creeps are doing this i think it just makes me a better citizen and that's maybe my maybe the real question why does it work

2:09:24 And I...well, if you think it makes you feel like a better citizen. I think it's important that people feel that way when you do...I remember long time ago that you went to see Uncle Don and it was Meg right? Donna Meg yeah She took your side she listens the show I guess once in awhile That was first Hot Pockets tour we did the show from their driveway with RV from Baroness Maggie She said to you, you know, you guys are Patriots. Yes Yeah she had taken notes and she had a notepad said yeah patriots is exactly what she said And I think what it's gonna mean we're not Patriots in any sense of the John Payne or Thomas Jefferson But I think in terms like getting people to think the way The two of us could in a combination combinatorial way In other words did where we think together? I think is that such a healthy thing? I think that's patriotic

2:10:17 I think it's healthy to see things as they really are. And is that why it's working? Is that why we are able to sustain doing this because people feel healthier because of this? They feel better, they have some enlightenment cause every show we get some crazy thing we say that goes that they go to or they think of themselves, wow I would have never thought of that. Now a lot of the things you know as a writer when i'm writing a lot of stuff which is contrarian A lot of people will say ah you know I was thinking that but I couldn't put it in those words and I'm complimented for saying what people are writing what people think

2:10:57 In words that make a lot of sense, we do a little of that. Not as much as revelation which is beyond that it's like I would have never thought of that and some stuff you bring up...I will say I would have never thought it's not like oh he really sees this what I'm thinking but He's putting it in words that I couldn't put it in. So, that's what you've done." No! It's complete revelation which is...and revelatory material is uplifting and I think that's why people like the show so much because you get uplifted by this like a door has been opened that you didn't even know was there.

2:11:37 I'll take that. It's a little preachy, but it is what it is and that's what I think is important and that's what kind of cool about as opposed to just stating the obvious or one other thing I always thought this show was mostly about was people were scratching their heads you know this doesn't sound right? And then we explain that it doesn't sound right because its not right here's what it is. And they're like ah yeah thats exactly it! That's different than opening a door We also really have, we really truly...we really don't have an agenda. People accuse us of me certainly I really don't give a shit! I like it i just like doing it. No our agenda is to you know find revelations. It's a revelatory thing that's the but that's not an agenda it's just like a happenstance so I don't know we don't have an agenda and we're not Republicans or Democrats

2:12:38 I am an independent and I consider myself a libertarian. And you know, it's...I got these clips from the show or two ago where they...it turns out that Charles Koch who was an early member of the John Birch Society... Folk brothers! ...got kicked out of the Birch Society because he ran into a libertarian thinker and became not only a staunch libertarian, but one of the biggest supporters of the anti-Vietnam War movement. Now which puts him on the camp of the left, and they should be appreciated as such, but instead he's reviled by the left when he's really

2:13:20 of them. Is that the same guy who pumps $25 million a year into PBS? Yeah, well maybe their whole job is to look evil I have no idea what they would do...I think it's just because they have an oil company That's all it is These guys hate oil and they want green, green, green. And they're going to shove it down your throat with any technique they can and it's going nowhere as we heard in even the clip from years ago. And their super rich! It's always fun to bang against a bridge. Super rich or bad. Yeah

2:13:59 I mean, one of the brothers built an entire ghost town in the middle of nowhere. Somewhere in Colorado it's still there and you can't go there, it's all fenced off but if you can get some...I'm actually working on this try to get an invite to go in there and take some photos but you look at up put Koch Brothers Ghost Town in Google and you'll find it well as we start wind things down. I am a little concerned about my own future as it appears that there will come a day, which you have consistently predicted when certain things will just not be able to be said on a podcast that is received in the traditional manner through the internet through ISPs that may or may not have to deem something lawful or legal? I do worry about that

2:15:00 I think it's premature to worry about it, but is something you should worry about eventually. And I think they're going to crack down on the cussing They're gonna crack down on porn. They're gonna crack down on content, and you will need a license. Luckily my background I think allows me to get most of these things because I have enough credibility as a real journalist that I can pass the test for a lot of these things that are gonna eventually appear and yeah, this is what net neutrality's going to lead to

2:15:38 The FCC, the government is gonna end up with controlling what they feel they should control which is the information streams. You can do that thing from...I don't know where you could it from actually there's no place left in the world I mean Snowden has to hide himself in Russia which has obviously caused all these issues so there's no place you can go, you can't go offshore Canada maybe. It won't make any difference because the blockage or whatever they'll call it, blocking will be done at a local level. It doesn't matter where you're doing it from yet I just worry about it and then what is my future? I probably need to get something going okay 15 more years do you have to start early 15 more years of this show and I'm 65 and then I stop and then what then dog food well Mickey will probably murdered you by

2:16:38 So I'm not concerned. Or one of us croaks! Well that could happen too, That would suck Yeah it would limit the opportunities for the show Well i think you should do a product Anyway okay Right I have fears that's all I am just saying I have fears It is fine Easy for you to say Do you have real estate? I do have real estate, like you know which fall back on a real...I tell everyone to get real estate. Might as well get a little depressing clip here which i think no let's don't do that lets play that idiot Geraldo Rivera who makes more money than we do and is on the marijuana clip number two

2:17:30 Are you feeling now, uh you know the opposition will build however they felt about it a year ago that was before A year of some pretty seedy experience with pot shops opening close to schools and You know some rowdiness outside. I mean, you know It's maybe the boom is off the bud Yeah this The bloom is off the bud Why is there? This is still baffling to me why California can't pass the marijuana initiative I've always liked that we have Couple of skills that we can always really talk about with authority aviation being one. That's when I can cover pretty well Yeah, marijuana being the other one Talk about that pretty well yeah, yeah and you know you have your background in as a scientist and air pollution controller

2:18:22 or refining oil, refinery. Yeah. Which is just to throw all the way back a lot of factories when I was a kid, lots of factors that worked for Ford Motor Company and work for trail mobile as an inspector done a lot because I could do a lot back in the day now they don't have any opportunities kids are all noodle boys there's nothing for them except working on noodle factory exactly Now you have one clip I'd like to get out of the way this is Charlie Rose This was the clip that we realized Charlie Rose is kind of a creepy guy in some ways. And when it came to sex, do we want to do this? The clip that made us realize he's obviously having an affair with somebody instead of having the chance to appreciate their father as Elizabeth. This is a hold on. This was Edwards' wife, you know, the guy ran for vice president. Oh yes, the guy who had the haircut

2:19:16 The guy with the hair, yeah. Instead of having a chance to appreciate their father as I had for so long Why is sexual affairs so big deal? It's about sex He didn't love another person Everybody knows that he knows that and you know why this is a big deal Or this gem Tell me about the sexuality it's in your DNA Yeah, he's got issues. Now I had an old Gordon Brown clip and i put it here for a reason but this is before Cameron, this how far back the show goes It was before Cameron then before Blair And so next to Obama Beach

2:20:04 We join President Obama in paying particular tribute to the spectacularly bravery of American soldiers who gave their lives on Omaha Beach. He said, Obama beach didn't he? Yeah he said Obama beach and he got so far when he's gonna say it again he realized when you almost gonna say Obama Beach again play one more time so people appreciate this gaffe yeah this is a very good gaffe And so next to Obama Beach We join President Obama in paying particular tribute to the spectacularly bravery of American soldiers who gave their lives on Omaha Beach. Oops! Alright, uh... I have my phone going off What else do we need to discuss John? What else do we need- Well let me take a look at it here. I made a little list and then we'll just get these out of the way

2:20:57 about the creation of the show, I know she talked about that. Bat Signal? Oh, Bat Signal! If this goes back a long time we have a number of apps certainly that were produced when smartphones really started coming out. The show was evolving during smartphone... certainly iPhone and the whole birth of the smartphone phenomenon which is now of course known as tech news and People who are able to, that were interested in making apps that would help you listen to the show have different... and I don't really know how super successful they are but there's a number of them that are meant specifically to listen to the live stream. We have it depends but probably about on average 1,000 people who listened live to the show

2:21:49 And a number of them are also in the chat at the same time while we're doing the show, which I find to be very helpful. I like seeing some...I just like knowing there's an audience out there and often people will shout something in the chat room or email and sometimes it's handy where you can ask... And sometimes corrections take place? Yes absolutely. In real-time Absolutely And as a part of that, you have the push notification which was kind of a new deal on the iPhone when it first came out. So you have this app installed on your iPhone and I believe it also works on one or maybe a couple of Android apps When I send a tweet...I'll tell you exactly what is Anytime I send a tweet that includes the following Hashtag, at sign, pocket no agenda

2:22:40 then whatever the tweet is, the notification goes off. And I believe that the sound is the in-the morning sound. Notification pops up with probably we're live now at noagendastream.com and that is known as the bad signal and there's different variations. There's a growl notification it all kind of works on the same system It would be interesting to know how many people still use it but surprisingly a lot of people And we've forgotten to fire off the bat signal, which is obviously a callback throw back. A call back to the Batman, the Bat-signal sometimes I've forgotten to do it or forgot what? I forget the tweet with that keyword and people like oh well I missed the start of the show and they come into the chat room 45 minutes after we started all angry if you look at noagendastream.com right now actually um iIve added something there's a countdown timer

2:23:40 noagendastream.com and the countdown timer is number of days, hours etc until the next show- next live show so right now I have for as of this moment one day 21 hours 26 minutes 52 seconds oops that's me i think hold on shut up So just people like to be reminded. You gotta remind people of things all the time, it's a busy world that's why we have to remind people to help us out. Dvorak dot org slash N A Which is another one of our little secrets jingles work It's not much of a secret I mean yeah it is Yeah it is Apparently it is because nobody does them right? There are still people using them but its well known

2:24:32 In fact, the guy that was... We talked about this on one of the older shows. A guy ran a... It was in Canada and we listened to Canadian stations and some guy who invented the modern jingle in the 20's I guess was on radio jingles and he was talking about their effectiveness I will assert that some of our jingles are actually healing for the mind. Healing!

2:25:08 when you're being terrorized by your government. A number of times people have tweeted and said, oh I heard the jingle when i saw this therefore not being terrorized about ISIS about to chop your head off... I think it's beneficial! Yeah probably is I'm sure it probably is and we do a lot. I think that's beneficial And I hope people appreciate it and do go to the Dvorak org slash na and take out a program of some sort As a Christmas gift, and this is the Christmas show it isn't for 2014, and I would like to Ask you where you actually are at this moment my office not being really on Christmas Oh, I don't know yet. Maybe in Port Angeles. I may be in California. Not sure okay? I'm in Mexico

2:25:57 You mean Mexico we are doing it. We're doing I didn't get that had an old clip about Mexico saying don't go to Mexico whatever you do I Wanted to play that little fear in ya Okay, yeah WTF Mexico. Yeah is that it? Yeah might be Around a hundred officers cordoned off the area after authorities discovered fresh mass graves on Saturday okay Mickey might be listening let's not do this right now Yeah we're going and we're doing a non-traditional no Christmas tree No Christmas Christmas for change

2:26:39 Well, I didn't non-turkey Thanksgiving myself where everyone else had turkey. I didn't have anything but I had shawarma for a Thanksgiving Yes you said that? Okay well... I'm giving up on everything i think I'm just giving up on everything Play the jingle bells as we go out yes I shall play the jingle bells anyway John Merry Christmas Merry Christmas We will speak on Sunday Yes live Live and I will be In Mexico. All things willing, all things being equal, all things working the same If you're not in Mexico you'll be somewhere else No I'll be there just hopefully i'll be able to connect that's Oh yeah you'd be able to if your in a good spot And I look forward to bringing you local news Good It's tough to talk about ourselves don't know if like it that much Yeah we went too long

2:27:40 Yes, we give some people some insight. They didn't have it I think is for new list there's a lot of people probably just turned it off Well yes maybe the way I see it was worth it It was worse that's coming to you from FEMA region 6 here in the capital the drone star states In the morning everybody, I'm Adam Curry. And from northern Silicon Valley this is the kind of show that a lot of you hoped we kept doing since early shows now you know why we don't. I am John C. Dvorak We'll be back on Sunday right here on No Agenda Merry Christmas slave The best podcast in the universe dvorak dot org slash n-a