1:44:00 any, like mandates. You don't have to take your booster shot you don't have to wear a mask but the private sector might do that by the way Fauci was not the one who recommended the lockdowns First of all I didn't recommend locking anything down and the record will show Neil that we didn't recommend shutting everything down to the president that we shut the country down. Oh, I'm sorry contradiction after contradiction these people are liars and now we have to start it all off with Michael Shmurkonish and Anthony Fauci joining me now to discuss is Dr. Anthony Fauci he of course is the former director of The National Institute Of Allergy And Infectious Diseases. Dr. Fauci nice to have you back
1:44:46 How worried are you that people will not follow advice to wear masks if, big if we get to that? Well Michael that's a very good question. As you said, if we get to that I mean we're starting to see a surge of cases as you mentioned about an 18 or 19 percent increase in hospitalizations certainly going commonality with nineteen percent. Oh yeah oh yeah It's totally scripted. This is all a script. In a 19% increase in hospitalizations, certainly going in the wrong direction with what looks like a late summer and into the fall surge how bad it's gonna get we don't know as you know this is a very unpredictable virus has shown us that Oh! It's a very unpredictable virus boy I thought we had under control over the last three-and-a-half years
1:45:36 I am concerned that people will not abide by recommendations. And we're not talking about mandates or forcing anybody, but when you have a situation where the volume of cases in society gets to a reasonably high level particularly the vulnerable those who are elderly and those with underlying conditions are going to be more susceptible and vulnerable if they do get infected to get severe disease leading to hospitalization. We know that. What happened to your vaccine that said you don't have to go the hospital? That's a fact, we've seen that so I would hope
1:46:11 that if in fact we get to the point where the volume of cases is such and organizations like the CDC recommend, CDC doesn't mandate anything. I mean recommends... Ah! They just recommend? That people wear masks. I would hope that they abide by the recommendation and take into account the risk to themselves And to their families. And again, we're not talking about forcing anybody... ...to do anything." It's important that we let- it's tedious I know but it's important because he is giving us the script so we can look out for and be aware every- So you're going to hurt your family this is killing grandma it's just a recommendation You should abide by it Totally understood There is a perception out there by many How many? I don't know Republicans
1:46:58 that they don't work and the data concludes that they didn't work in the first go-round. Respond to that on masks Yeah, well that's not so I mean when you're talking about at the population level Now listen this is tricky He says that's not true When you're talking at the population level That the data are less strong than knowing that if you look on a situation as an individual protecting themselves or protecting them from spreading it There's no doubt that masks work. Different studies give different percentages of advantage of wearing it, but there is no doubt that the weight of the studies and there have been many studies indicate the benefit of wearing masks
1:47:41 He just said nothing. There's studies that say yes and no on a population level, no but individual level you know your own personal choice, yes! I'm going to refer to one of them You've heard about it before? I heard about it from a number of radio callers Brett Stevens in the Times talked about Cochran put that on the screen The Cochran Report The most rigorous and comprehensive analysis of scientific studies conducted on the efficacy of masks for reducing the spread of respiratory illness, including COVID-19 was published last month. Its conclusions said Tom Jefferson, the Oxford epidemiologist who is the lead author were unambiguous there is just no evidence that they masked make any difference he told the journalist Mayan Damasi full stop
1:48:26 But wait, hold on. What about the N95 masks as opposed to the lower quality surgical or cloth masks? Makes no difference none of it He said well what about the studies that initially persuaded policymakers to impose mask mandates They were convinced by non randomized studies flawed Observational Studies how do we get beyond that finding of that particular review? I Do you think he can do it? Do you think that he can convince us that this report, the biggest report, the report that was... The definitive gold standard top of the line. Can Fauci refute it? Yeah but there are other studies Michael that show at an individual level for individual when your talking about the effect
1:49:10 on the epidemic or the pandemic as a whole, the data are less strong. But when you talk about it as an individual basis of someone protecting themselves... You see? It's about you protecting yourself and protecting your family. As a whole they don't work but for you personally, YOU human resource, they will work! spreading it to others, there's no doubt that there are many studies that show that there is an advantage. When you took at the broad population level like the Cochran study, the data are less firm with regard to the effect on the overall pandemic
1:49:47 But we're not talking about that, we're talking about an individual's effect on their own safety. That's a bit different than the broad population. If it comes to it, we hope it doesn't. But if it comes to it might a better approach say let's protect the most vulnerable and allow others to lead their normal lives? Final word is yours Well yeah I mean mandating I don't think is gonna happen there may be local mandates Michael Oh local! And people keep thinking that the federal government is going to mandate that you wear a mask No no oh no It's not gonna be the federal government Be local, be your loca- probably some businesses but this all gonna be local
1:50:36 That's not going to happen, but there may be individual institutions organizations that are going to say if you want to come to work. You've got a wearer mask is nothing that the federal government can do about that if people want to do it locally I think people need to realize It is extremely unlikely that you're going to see a mandate, for example from the CDC which has no authority to mandate anything with regard to masks. They can only recommend it so people essentially for the most part can do what they want to do based on their own evaluation of their own risk. Completely untrue insurance companies will not allow businesses to continue without mask mandates for their businesses airlines are going
1:51:18 mandate it for travel, bus companies. It's going to be everything. It is just going to happen again as the nature of it and I love that people say oh no! No, people are gonna fight it yeah they will but then you...it's the same trick You can't work, you can't travel And this is setup, its a set up and I honestly don't know what to do about it I don't see a way out. Complain? Well, complain... Scott Adams had kind of the best idea He's like the first airline that mandates it everyone has to boycott it which also won't happen No it won't happen