12:57 And this is from 2016, I don't know if it was just before the election or if it was after, but the people in the audience, communists, or new communists, scientific communists perhaps, are asking, you know, well what do we do about voting? Voting basically doesn't work. Voting is not the way to go in a society. And we'll just listen to a little bit of that so you get an idea of why you don't need to go to these marches. In response to voting, is there no value in working to abolish a system while participating to minimalize the immediate damage it does at the same time?
13:33 And then someone else asked, if we avoid voting because no candidate represents the left, how can we also avoid enabling the rise of the worst of the right? I think it was Emma Goldman who used to say, if voting would lead towards fundamental transformation, it would be illegal. So we're not against reform, we fight for reform, we're just not seduced by the illusions of reform. Is that a characterization of what you were talking about? Yeah, but I think there's another point here, which is the logic of voting forgets one very basic fact, that in any kind of profound social change that's come about, it didn't come about by people playing by the rules
14:22 and going along with the way things are. It went by people stepping outside of the way things are and refusing to go along with the rules. Mind you, this is when Donald Trump was going outside of all the rules and stepping on everything and they're triggered by it but are advocating for the exact same thing. You think about... Good point. Yeah. And by the way, before you continue, that kind of, that overall, that's the vacuum guy with the squeaky voice I guess. Yeah. Probably had a vasectomy early on. He does look rather boyish for his age. He, this is kind of the stuff that you would get in some sort of left-leaning high school civics class. I mean this is so
15:13 Simplistic and stupid it's just that the fact that people would listen to it is beyond me well I'm gonna pain you for another 50 seconds of the way things are and Refusing to go along with the rules if you think about for example even some of the gains of the civil rights movement It the way things were in the South was it wasn't just something people, you know white people didn't want I that black people can go to a restaurant. It was against the law. The law said that you had to have segregation. So, if you were going to change that, you couldn't say, we have to abide by the law. You have to say, this law is an unjust law. We have to step outside and oppose that. And if you think about any kind of basic change that's been brought about, it's always happened... See, people say, you know, for example, now I've got to call his name, Michael Eric Dyson.
16:07 You know, in the last presidential election said, well, you know, if you don't vote, then you aren't in the game. You know, the championship is the San Antonio Spurs and the Miami Heat. If you don't support one of those two teams, then you don't have a, you're not involved. You don't have a dog in the fight. It's actually, it's not that much different from what I hear Republicans saying, or we've said, hey, you know, we don't just have two parties, but these guys just say, you're not going to vote. We can't vote. It's got to be revolution, fire bombs, you know, whatever. No voting. We're not going to vote. Then why does the guy throw also, then he throws out a bunch of sports cliches at us? He's a total douche.
16:49 A total douche. But anyway, people got out there, I don't even think they know what they're marching for. They just hate Trump. Yeah, I'll march with the commies. Yeah, really. Yeah, and you know, the thing is, I understand, because I read a lot of this, I'm very interested why people follow, you know, six resolutions of the Central Committee of the Revolutionary Communist Party. I'm interested in these things. And, you know, but why? The younger generation has been convinced that health care, which really is health care insurance, is a human right. Housing is a human right. A job is a human right. They just want what their rights are and be damned how it works. Just, I need my job.
17:33 I need my health care, I need my food, and then when you wake up one day you're in the same box as your neighbor doing the same dreary job as your neighbor eating the same brown food as your neighbor, maybe you'll change your mind, but it's going to be too late by then. And it kind of folds into that utopian world that Alan Jones was talking about. Hey kids, shut up. You're the biggest users of capitalist stuff. I barely even want to buy a new car anymore. I want to, you know, just give me something, an old junker. Yeah, well that's us. Yeah, well that is us. I learned that from by watching you, okay? That's where I learned that old, that old car stuff is better for sure. It is. Anyway, still something to keep an eye on. The thing is, I'm going to give a car buying tip just out of the blue here. Oh, okay. Good. If people want to buy a good used car. First of all, don't be in a hurry.