Hornet's Nest

00:00 Hey. You want a cyber? Is that what you want? Adam Curry, John C. DeVora It's Sunday October 27th 2013 time for your Gitmo Nation media assassination episode 5-6-0 This is no agenda Celebrating six years of substance abuse from the Travis Heights hideout in the capital of the drone star state A very wet Austin Tejas in the morning everybody I'm Adam Curry And from Northern Silicon Valley where I am happy celebrating the sixth anniversary of this show I'm John C. Borak. It's Crackpot and Buzzkill! That's right, and before we start... John, I have to bring something to the table a huge problem Okay You know how I uh well you have this too but it been since the summer last summer i've had this problem where songs get stuck in my head

00:55 Oh good. Well not so good because all the songs have been replaced and I can't stop it, I can't stop doing... Hey kids! It's Freddy the Fog come on! We had to practice it so you might as well practice in your head But its really bad but it comes out of my mouth this is the problem oh you actually like doing the voice yeah This might be your ticket out My career, my ticket out of this hellhole Ziggy it's time to have some dick I hope you didn't burn Someone pointed out to me that this is very similar to Towelie from South Park. I wasn't familiar with Towelie until someone showed the video to me. Yeah, and then i was like oh...I'm not that unique! Well that type of voice is not unique at all. It's a variation of a lot of them. Somebody said it sounded a little like Spongebob but it's not quite as high-pitched. In fact the cadence is exactly like Towelie

02:02 And I've only seen, I think Towelie's on one episode or something going... Don't forget! Wanna watch porn? Oh right the Towelie kid. Yeah No it's not even a kid it's just a towel Okay It's a towel My mom would be so proud I'm plagiarizing an imitation of a towel. That's right. You're not plagiarizing anything, because plagiarizing refers to stealing the material and not the voice. People have voices that you sound like Bing Crosby but you're not plagiarizing Bing Crosby. Okay good point thank you for your courage in that. You're welcome! And thank YOU for your courage for doing The Towelie Voice Thank you for six years of The No Agenda Show John, the best podcast in the universe any thoughts?

02:51 Yeah, it's been a long six years. I was thinking about...I think I actually verbalized this to Miss Mickey the other day What a strange relationship you and I have Okay Have you ever considered how weird it really is? No Not really Well, I don't think a lot of people realize that the only time we talk is during this show And we're not, we don't hang out. Well yeah I know because if you're talking to some guy for six hours a week you really don't need to see him much longer than that. If we didn't have to do the show we'd probably conversate once in awhile

03:34 Not for six hours. No, that's what I'm saying ever no you know if I don't Conversate six hours with anybody that's my point isn't that a weird relationship We don't I mean when the show is over and once done during the week do you ever think of me? No never exactly I never think of you. Unless i come up with some gem and I think to myself as I kind of wring my hands and have people laugh, I say Adam won't have this one! I got him! The bastard... Exactly we're in constant competition Except for that moment which only happens rarely It does happen once in a while. I know he's never heard of this Here is my favorite

04:15 When I when I get an email with some spectacular analysis or a fantastic link, and like oh this is great And then like how crappy copy John on it shit because then I know that you've seen it Yeah, well they ever luckily this stuff that Luckily the stuff sent to you is copied to me but do the same thing to me although once in a while because since I control the I am the bottleneck when it comes to some of the email addresses occasionally someone will just send it to The No Agenda Show which goes to my box. Right

04:51 And so then I get the exclusive rights. Yeah, exactly! But don't you have that moment where you're like... You're looking at the emails like is he? Oh crap, he's copied. Always check that right away. It's not unique. I hope so. And i think that um the longer you've been in media and when when I first started out uh arguably I started when I was 15 You know, but that's all I was all cute and you know pirate radio and stuff But I'm but really I started getting paid for it when I was 19 And in the beginning you really care what people say about your performance or your show or you know? Yeah, I can hear you chuckling already As you go along

05:36 Or you know everyone has something to say about it, and of course. It's so easy to do a show It's it's this the easiest thing is just two guy all we got to do is get out of bed and yap at each other That's nothing else goes on Everybody try it right and So of course we make it look easy But you know I've done new performances literally for most of my life certainly all of my professional life and as you get older, you know and now I'm uh yeah i've been doing this for a while there's very few people left who whose opinion about your show you care about. And honestly John it-I can count mine on one hand... You're one of them

06:23 And so I think that's kind of what still magical is that, you know... and this is the only time that we have private conversations after the show. We never have a private conversation before the show. We're always streaming, so just, you know, we roll right into it um but there's always there's a conversation of the answer why did you do that just change the direction of the show we literally have 45 seconds of review and it's usually here's usually how it goes don't ever say that again We're very direct, which I learned from you. Which I quite enjoy actually Well that's because it keeps the conversation short Yeah it does and and I've learned so much from you in that regard You know let me get instead of beating around the bush Let's just say it let's just get it out to say if I have to say when somebody does That to you but at the same time you'd get over it It's a yeah no you get over well took me a little while John I have to say did the first

07:22 Somewhere in the first hundred episodes or so you went off on me, I don't remember what after the show and you have your moods You know like everybody and sometimes just roll my eyes other times like yeah He's got a real point there but yet But once I figured out that it is so much easier if you don't take offense to something and just take the information It really works. People should, you know... we should write a book about that actually. Honey? You stink! Use deodorant Well I don't quite do it with everybody and this is one particular topic this is one particular thing that only you and I do but I like it

08:06 I like it. But above all, you don't do that much so it's not a big deal anyway. No, that is true. The show is so damn good! I'm always impressed occasionally... well not always impressed but once in awhile I go jeez, actually I tend to learn something from the show and think the audience gets a kick out of it they like listening to our rapport and uh.. It makes you really understand what people say why can't watch the news the same way anymore since we have to be tuned into 24-7 I can see why you can't watch the news that way anymore once you start getting a clue about what bullcrap is being propagated by the corporate media. It's ridiculous. It's kind of a nice loophole. And i don't want to be uppity about it, oh we're so much better than them but it's just like... Can they try a little harder?

08:54 And it's kind of a loop that we get into because we're aware of everything 24-7. It irritates all the time, but then we have this lovely opportunity to get it off our chest I'm after the show. I'm really done complaining I'm okay. I don't know about you, but... Complaining? It's not the same thing that happens to me! I've probably never been done complaining. Just a complainer. No, but... I get an aptitude test once. I don't get into it with people that much anymore Oh well yeah. I just can't, ya know? I'm the same way. I back off on a lot of situations because we already know where its headed if an argument breaks out and its not pleasant

09:35 And we're not getting paid. Yeah, exactly! Hey pay me and I'll talk to you. There's no compensation at all for getting into a random argument with somebody No, it has to be someone I care about. Why am I wasting my time with this person arguing when they don't have the no agenda background? Well sometimes... They show in disagreeing and then I'm game! Yes and sometimes you want to get some information out of someone You can prod them along it kind of helps but I agree that happened at Halcyon yesterday Sir Gene was there Of course I went alone Miss Mickey still not 100% So she's still home so I'm stil running the house kinda

10:19 Which isn't saying much. And so after the farmers market, you know they had a little sit down and then one of the guys who's there you know I'd met him once before and yeah and Sergine and I were talking about ham radio of course and this guy is like well the NSA is listening to everything anyway who cares? You know and I'm like And I was like, and I kind of got into do you think it's possible that maybe this isn't just like a single whistleblower? That maybe there's more behind this perhaps. There are other agencies that don't like the NSA and maybe there is internal stuff going on and they have the goods on other people and politicians...and then I just caught myself like, crazy! Stop this! I gotta go.

11:08 Anyway, I'm all I'd like to say on this six anniversary John is thank you for being my partner in this show. Thank you for Putting up sometimes with my irrational behavior and Tourette's And above all thank you for allowing me to consistently and constantly go down to route into rabbit holes without prejudice Of course you will mock and analyze once I've come out, but you never stopped me from... in fact you encouraged me to go down many crazy rabbit holes. And there's not a lot of people who understand how important that is. To me at least!

11:50 Well, I had discouraged an occasion. Mmm...I don't think so Yeah? No When you were in the rabbit hole and jumped down the wrong hole I tried to find a better one But you've never stopped me from jumping down a hole! You dig a lot of stuff up, you're a burrower Is there like a family name for rabbits? Lapidus? Lapida-dapitis? Something like that? Yeah, I found that word but couldn't pronounce it So I skipped it Is it lapidor? I don't know. Let's see, rabbit... genus? Genus is that the...? The genus, along with the genuses Right like it's not a mammal Is it a marsupial? No! It's a rodent, I think Ah, I am a rodent of truth Oh here's one Here's an interesting name for... let me get this thing to come up

12:45 Rabbits? No, there's... well yeah there are mammals obviously. The small... so is a rat. There are small mammals in the family Leporidae and they're order of Legomorpha found in several parts of the world. There are eight different genera I think that's correct pronunciation classified as rabbits including the European rabbit Oryctolagus conilingus No, no, no. Caniculus. Sorry I got that wrong. Uh-huh. Got to tell rabbits genus Sylvi... It's somebody who is a rabbit guy and knows how to pronounce these things. He's going this Devorah can't pronounce Jones! Just take the compliment and let's move on Who cares about the rabbits anymore? And i would like to thank The producers of this program Did you know that the female rabbit is a doe? No, I didn't know that

13:40 The female rabbits are usually tasty. And a young rabbit is a kitten! Awwww! And the male is a buck! Hell yeah! Okay, anyway I'm sorry... Yeah, I want to thank the producers of this show who caught on very early after we kind of decided hey this is real work and we need to be paid to do it and the producers are you, the person who is listening to this program who has contributed financially or information or both. We have quite an interesting array of a cast of characters who surround the program certainly The Chat Room have been influential over the years man we've had a lot

14:20 Just think of the cast of characters and the talents that they bring to the table, that have been a part of this show. I think it's pretty amazing! Well it is part of the show in fact they are the producers as well and I give you credit for making sure we call them that because they contribute to the show besides just monetarily, lot of don't have any money and but they also contribute ideas and thoughts, and also observations and real facts. Occasionally one of them is an insider. Occasionally we got a lot insiders in all industries And we essentially have put together a network of intelligence agents We are the Rubicon! We're developing information that's valuable for our listeners Exactly. And producers and supporters

15:09 Should we roll right into our execs and then move on with the show? Yeah, we have a lot of obviously this is an anniversary show so it's not going to be as dense with information as it will be with thank yous. But let's thank our executive producers for this show which is 560 and starting right off with our buddy down there 4K... what's his name of his company at 4K TVs that he didn't put into note I'll get it. Pick it up Duke of Silicon Valley David Foley who came in with apparently a 5-5-5 membership plus the 666 dot 66 celebrating six years at the best podcasting universe he writes 4k special calm yes for K special comm wishing you continued success and hopefully another six years of no agenda And he came with twelve hundred twenty five dollars and sixty six cents which was very generous in his heart

16:01 And what was it? Oh, this is a five-five nine membership and as a huge sack of sixes So he also is my goodness Wow We got one two three four or five huge sacks of sixes including James Pires at Escondido California 666 dot 66 Thanks for the best podcast in the universe longtime listener first time contributor on my way to knighthood. Please D douchebag Oh no, please douchebag the NSA and give karma to Sinclair Edd & Chris. Okay NSA? Douchebag! And here's the karma You've got... Karma Keep up the fantastic work we need more like you just that don't just drink the Kool-Aid We are given Blow in Russian hookers for all as long as the carbon is taxed

16:50 Dennis Stephens or Stevens, but it's probably Stephens. 6666 Parker Colorado Thank you both for your courage It's been about a year since I donated so I thought he'd be a great time to provide the best podcast in the universe some value for value Dennis Stephens Parker Colorado at parker tech guy this will take me over the $1,000 mark I would like to be known as the Mile High Knight. Thanks for all you do, we need more... We need you now more than ever! Here's to at least six more good years. Have you ever- have you? Are you a member of the Mile High Club? I wish. I am! Oh good for you. Yeah, Virgin Atlantic? No... yeah.. not in the bathroom either. Oh no! Virgin Atlantic that- What?! If you're not in the bathroom seems risky. No they used to be, but now you can't do it anymore. The purpose of this 6th anniversary show is not for YOU to brag

17:47 Okay, I'm sorry. You have it because you should be at the ready with a theme With a theme? Yeah, but you push a button. Oh You're right I suck here we go ah yes, I'm sorry John I was too occupied with my Mile-high club performance. Yes Thank you for reminding me Grand Duke Stephen Pelsmacher's 666.66 in Belgium ITM gentlemen happy sixth anniversary I hope this is a good omen the six six six reference for you both for all and for all knights and dames of the greatest podcast universe thank you for your courage yes indeed thank you sir Sir Grand Duke Stephen Pelsmachers of Belgium AND France Yes he has Belgium AND France we can't overlook that fact

18:47 Baron sir, dr. Sharkey in Jackson Tennessee 66 6 6 dot 6 6 Cp and B case Sending a super stack of sixes on Sunday spectacular 6th anniversary special I suspect the show be full of surprises scandals and 60 sexy cynicism without a snippet of saccharine sentimentality That's pretty good. Actually that took it out where that took some time to put that together sincerely Baron sir, dr Sharkey Please give karma to both your families for allowing us to listen to you know there's a good point III think we should thank our families as well for putting up with us

19:25 You've got karma. Honey, trust me! Trust me this show will pay the rent one day David Julian 333 33 in Morgan Hill California happy anniversary blue reflector fire hydrant no agenda I love this David Julian you're crazy yeah you are nuts man i love it so what so you know somewhere there's some guy sitting in a shack with with ear with headphones ongoing Yes. Third time blue reflector fire hydrant? Simon Boyd, 333-33 in Perth!

20:01 Which I've never been to. Congratulations guys on years of solid and relevant news deconstruction recently up my game to 333 33 from 1111 a month if there's any boarding passes left, please put me down Maybe they will have fridges that order milk at milk and beer from there forget forgot to donate the show 420 So here's some value Oh So this about in Perth for 20 Huh. Some karma for all, thanks! Simon Perth West Oz PS there's a new jingle suggestion it could be good as a duo with around harmonica enhancements Dvorak dot org insolvent slaves you must pay I think we gotta work on that Let's give him a karma he needs one badly Absolutely You've got Karma

20:53 Stick it to Australia, we have Gavin Bowden. Sydney 27270 will be an associate executive producer happy anniversary John and Adam and thank you for your courage has been long since my last donation so please can I have a de-douching? Yes we'll do that in a moment! I have enclosed 666 for both of you and a double 6969 one for me and one for all the other supporters i've heard that NA Karma works and uh... And I need all the love Life help I can get at the moment, so please fire some love life girlfriend karma my way anyway gents keep up the awesome work and keep being phenomenal for all our sakes I don't know what I can do with those Compliments are pretty hardcore You've been d-d let me see where's the word. I believe the somewhere I have the Girlfriend Karma ah yes here it is

21:49 You've got karma there it is love life girlfriend karma Anthony Garlinger and Downers Grove, Illinois 210 Heil guardians of reality and Freddy the firewall. Thank you for your courage as promised as Say hi again That one broke up. As promised, there's a little tribute courtesy of my recent wedding please note the amount to 10 which is 21 times 10 the 21 are winning score in a game of cornhole aka bag spago etc and the ten well that just puts in the associate producer range if there are no objections I would like to dub this the corn hole darn donation and request to hear the corn hole recipe for success jingle whenever someone donates this amount

22:37 He's trying to set it up. I get it so anyone who donates 210 they want you to play that idiotic clip tonight It's the cornhole recipe for success ah Yeah, if you can find it. Yeah nice and reminded Adams getting some gigs outside of the no agenda show keep up the great work Yes I'm gonna combine that I think with a karma Diana whole say say once you say that sounds like a recipe for success to me just say it That sounds like a recipe for success to me

23:14 Kiss the same guy! Someone's getting cornholed today. Sounds like a recipe for success to me Wow, and finally Diane Holst $200 33 cents she's in FEMA region 7 All right Also Iowa And I do have a note from her Is this one of these women who are just shocked about the sexism on this show? No, most of the women aren't shocked about the sexism on the show. It's only newbies that come along with it are. Newbs? Newbs! Some newbs come at once what do you expect? Just because they've never heard a freewheeling show where you can just say whatever... We are the freewheelers there ya go! You don't have people taking our advertising money away because we say something that may appear to be sexist when is mostly observant

24:04 Yes, I've been exposed. I thought it was a casual listener but when it was pointed out to me that I knew the NA jingles and inside jokes there was nowhere to hide Please accept this donation and my apologies." So she, I don't know what the subtext is but apparently she... Sounds like her man or something. No it sounds like she had to admit this to herself! Oh okay She's probably grousing about this show and then says oh what am i thinking? Again I'm getting it all wrong And then so she donated became an associate executive producer for Show 560 Fantastic We do have a show coming up on Thursday

24:50 and we want to continue. We'll continue the celebration on Thursday if enough people are interested or didn't get in on time, and I think some people missed the deadline so go to noagendashow.com, noagenadation.com but mainly dvorak.org slash NA and channeldvorak.com slash na jump on that donation bandwagon let's keep this going yeah for another six years at least Dvorak dot org slash N A two quick PR mentions which is kind of fun on this show We got an email from B. Hey Adam, after a year at my publishing company I finally wormed my way into the office with The Deciders. Oh, I need some echo for that... THE DECIDERS! I have convinced them to launch a Beer SIP Are you familiar with this term? With the acronym SIP? Sip? Yeah. Standard Internet Protocol Special Interest Publication Oh it's like Sig

25:48 What's that? Special interest group. There you go! Well, though we're relatively small we have expansive distribution aka Walmart etc so we will be able to do something of value that people will actually get to see here is the opportunity no one around here knows spit about suds If you could reach out to our No Agenda Brewer Squad, I can infiltrate the magazine with no agenda freelance writers provided they are willing to be underpaid, underappreciated but with the opportunity to subtly slip in hits-to-the-mouth on it to a national audience. I would also like to be in touch with these guys if for nothing else to pick their brains about what they would like to see in a beer magazine." So send me an email and forwarded onto our SIPP publisher. But I think that's kind of cool as a promotional opportunity

26:39 Yeah, we tried to do stuff with the beers before and it just didn't work out. It was one of these dead ends. We do this occasionally when we come up with some idea You know, we got a bunch of beer in the mail and with all kinds of crazy instructions you gotta put the beer aside for two months and three hours. You got something I didn't get! I didn't receive any of that... I got one beer box that was so complicated that I just couldn't deal with it. The instructions aren't just open top consumed? No no, you've gotta let it age, drink at night... Check the barometric pressure! On the 30th of the month not before midnight.

27:18 It's Satan's brew. So I do want to make good on our buddy in Reykjavik, Reykjavik IO because they wanted a... Reykjavik IO wanted a Karma. Wanted give him a Karma Oh okay this is from Thursday show something we messed up? Well yeah it was long complicated note and Okay is this the make-good just like it was a long complicated note but we're just gonna give him a karma Is that it? Yeah! Okay good You've got karma and then it's the most important thing yes, and then somewhere in the about Reiki of a guy oh and the whole thing and

28:04 Talking with my stories about Reykjavik about the women about the women in Reykjavik And then there's one more link in the PR show notes, which I think might come up later during the donation segment But just in case The brand new no agenda. No agendroid app for Android Yeah right right right Which there's that's in the Play Store which apparently has quite a lot going on and with show notes and everything is in there. Yeah, apparently you get to show notes across this app and the whole thing which would be kind of interesting we encourage this sort of thing We do indeed And of course thank you again everyone there in the chat room at Noah Jinda stream calm knowledge in a chat net Thank you very much to our artists who have been here off along for the ride really probably

28:56 Most appreciated but maybe not always accredited. We started crediting them properly a couple hundred episodes ago You can see all of the artwork at no agenda art generator comm Thank you text But ours for a beautiful piece of art with ready to firewall for episode five five nine are really Tice is one of those Professional artists who do sometimes he just he hits it so squarely in the mouth It's just like wow and it's always beautiful what he makes always So we'll look forward to what we get for a 560 for six anniversary special again no agenda art generator.com and of course We always appreciate it when you go out there and continue to propagate our formula Our formula is this we go out? All right

30:01 So you got anything? Yeah, I got a number of things actually. Well you're the one that went and watched that crazy thing where... The only thing I get was this one clip from this douchebag from I think it's... This is the healthcare... four hours of healthcare dot-gov testimony. Yeah, I got the monkey court thing yeah lane okay i didn't even clip that one but yes it's a play because i think we should start with that monkey court congressman and then i think that sets the stage for your deeper analysis yes so this uh... just such a reiterate this would this was taking place during thursday show there was a a congressional hearing about uh... the buchanan launched health care dot gov v signature legislation doorway

30:50 the doorway to the signature legislation of this administration which is just not working and so they had the consultants up there in the witness box and everyone was grilling him. So once again here we have my Republican colleagues trying to scare everybody, hoping no I will not yield to this monkey court or whatever this thing is. This is not a monkey court! Do whatever you want, I'm not yielding Who was this? He was a guy from Illinois and I've unfortunately wrote his name down on the back of an envelope. Let me just say something, because i've seen this clip on television, I've heard it for the first time like this guy is so gay! Oh you think? Not until now... let me just hear this again about this monkey cart So once agai- Once again This is good my god he's bitching it And here we have our Republican colleagues trying to- Republicans who hate gays

31:43 Hate the guys I just scare everybody No, I will not yield to this monkey court. This thing is not I think it's a banana Republic or Monkey court would have never heard the term monkey court This is like such and what does he confuse with these confused with Banana Republic kangaroo court? monkey court or whatever they say in Australia where the surfers are really hot looking. Wow yeah that was a low point I thought that absolute low, low, low point. Yeah well that's what everyone clipped so i was actually going to take you in a different direction but now stick with this because I dropped into a whole different thing

32:24 Once I hit the C-Span and was surfing around, you know on c-span... c-span video.org I think or even on the regular C-Spain you can make clips pieces of the legislation and I'm so proud of some of our producers who are just sending me links. And if they pre-clip it you can put a description in there, it's actually really quite a good little piece of functionality they've got there for an otherwise horrific experience of online video because cspan.org really is shit when it comes to the video itself, you know it restarts. It does all kinds of stuff but the searching on the transcript...it really is a great resource I'm very very pleased that the cable industry does that for us because we're probably the only people using it. I'm sure! We're close to being the only ones so I'll take you down that other hole in a second as I get the...I found a couple of things kind of all over the map

33:24 The first thing that you may or may not have seen was just a separate bit of Kathleen Sebelius who got berated for saying the following. No one has been fired, my goal is to actually get the website up and running. What is your response to people who are calling for you to resign? Well, the majority of people calling me to resign I would say are people whom I don't work for. Yeah, that's just not a good thing to say. That's gonna come back and haunt her for a long time Yes like using you people yeah I don't work for these people no you weren't worth for the public

34:05 You work for the people, lady. Okay so I was gonna roll you into this with kind of an obvious statement this is one of the witnesses his name is Slavitt he's from one of the consulting companies it really doesn't matter who has what piece but he's from QSSI and he did a end-to-end test part of the government website and slava did you personally try and get onto the system yes they did and what for what state I attempted, i think i put in Texas. Is that where you're from? I'm not but I was just testing the system. What did it work well? Well I logged on to create an account and was able to do so um...I just never received a confirmation email So it didn't work? Didn't work! Okay, I was thinking about that Do you know..i mean I don't know if these guys have any idea what it takes to even get that piece of a process right Confirmation emails

35:00 With the way email is run these days, did they have an agreement with Hotmail and with Gmail and with Yahoo Mail to let all their stuff through and not throw it into promotion tabs? Doubtful. Doubtful! Okay so this comes down to one issue four hours of testimony It really comes down to one thing that took place, one thing that happened. Already it has been picked up as a political move and is being used against the administration I'm not too sure but it certainly smells like smoke coming out of the gun And this has to do... when you have a big project like this The main thing everyone's on the lookout for is a change order

35:45 And you can have a change order which should be simple across the board that says, okay the style has changed. We have a different background You can have a change order that can be, you know if it goes into direct functionality. It can affect a lot and change orders are written into these contracts. Hey man! If you give us a change order within X amount of time before the due date then all bets are off risk is yours and you'll probably wind up paying by the hour for us to fix anything that doesn't work at the last minute would you agree? That's kind of how it works John on these big integration projects I think that would be sounds right to me. So, uh apparently some change orders came in. To make this program function efficiently and effectively and i urge my colleagues to work with us and let's work with these witnesses to get it right thank you. I yield back. I'm sorry I should have clipped that out here we go Thank you for being here today I have a series of quick questions It'll be fun if one of them said thank you for your courage but never like to get too

36:47 Ms. Campbell, how many change orders have you received by estimate either formally or informally leading up to the launch in what function that they wanted you to perform? We've received approximately eight change orders. Eight change orders when was the most recent I believe as recent as August of this year Okay Mr. Slavitt I don't know the answer to that but i think it was a low number If any. I don't know the answer. Okay, are you both making changes now with code in order to fix any of the so-called glitches or nonperformance issues? Ms. Campbell yes or no? That would be yes. Mr. Slavitt Yes we make modifications along the way sure Great and how many organizational boundaries between the piece of information traveling from the United States government to the web portal

37:42 How many boundaries, how many organizational boundaries including the states and their access to information does that piece of information cross? I'd have to get back to you with that answer. So i'm not quite sure about this guy Rogers who was asking the questions but he was very good and knew exactly what he was driving towards knew exactly what to ask next because the most important change order that took place was the change from allowing someone to come into healthcare.gov and browse around look at different plans anonymously as they say or let's just call it window shopping without registering there was a last-minute change order that forced everyone to register now in some pieces of this of this implementation which is large across multiple systems it's a very small change but of course when it comes to load

38:37 and you know just general stress on the systems, on the back end that is of course a massive change. And that came at the very last moment and there is some speculation as to why that happened. Did the White House ever order your company for political reasons to mask the sticker shock of Obamacare by disabling this anonymous shopper function? So let me answer two things one I don't believe members of CGI actually made those statements direct in that manner. I think they may have been taken out of context but i think they'd have to get back to you with confirmation of that and, to my knowledge no the White House has not given us direct instructions. There ya go so this is what happened and I think I have a clip where they both say oh I've no idea... to make this program... this one here... before we go on

39:34 There was somebody did manage to get to that page that they're talking about trying to get people to avoid looking at and I have a copy of it somewhere. Well, I have a copy of the spreadsheet. Yeah the spreadsheet shows all these crazy prices? Holy mackerel! Well so there's a lot of things happening in the insurance world CBS is actually reporting pretty forthright about not just the website, but also what's taking place with the Affordable Care Act itself and existing insurances. Have a listen! The Affordable Care Act was signed by the President in 2010 and since then he has repeated one reassuring phrase... If you like your insurance plan, you will keep it

40:21 No one will be able to take that away from him. But it is happening, the president's health care law raises the standards for insurance policies which many consider to be a good thing but hundreds of thousands of Americans whose policies don't meet the new standards are being told that their health plans are being canceled Before I had a plan that had a $1500 deductible I paid $199 a month. The most similar plan that I would have available to me would be $278 a month, my deductible would be $6500 and all of my care after that point would only covered 70%. So now i'm being forced to choose from bunch of new plans that don't want to choose from their are all more expensive. So what's happening is um...a lot of the existing plans

41:05 being cancelled and this is happening under you know the fine print in any insurance policy that says well, you know if government says it has to be something else will cancel and then we'll create a new plan. And it's funny because I had to pick up some meds for...and hate saying that I don't know why I said medication for Miss Mickey! ...and I went to the People's Pharmacy and we uh..the insurance that I have had been changed I got new cards on September 30th And it's actually the same number, but it's a new card. So all of sudden I'm like yeah that'll be $90 and they say well doesn't insurance pay for... No no your insurance has been canceled! And and of course I knew there was just an administrative issue and took me about 45 minutes to figure it out but the ease with which it was said to me told me that this is happening a lot like it's the most normal oh no your insurance got canceled

42:00 Like it's the most normal thing in the world, the way this is thrown out. So I think it is taking place. Ironically where a lot of people have been trying to bring down this White House They've really brought the wrath upon themselves with this idiocy and here's the piece of testimony where we find out that no one really quite knows where this last change order came from at the very last minute which indeed changed the anonymous browsing of prices and plans to a registered process, in fact not just registered to browse them but

42:38 a lot more to it, but no one really knows who gave the order except there seems to have been some kind of meeting at the White House. Chairman from Pennsylvania Dr Murphy. Thank you Ms Campbell when healthcare.gov went live on October 1st it was not possible to browse the site in order to see the prices you had to register who made that decision? A CMS made that decision. Who within CMS? I don't have the exact name of the person, but I would say Henry Chow from CMS And are you aware of any White House involvement in that decision process? I am not So what challenges arise when you switch a website where individuals can browse to one

43:26 Just Browse versus one where you first have to register. Does this require a substantial amount of work? Well, it definitely puts an additional burden on the system Do you have to write a new code to make that happen? Well for us, to turn it off was just putting a flag in our system To not allow for anonymity And how much more time does this take then to test a system like that once you've made those kind of decisions It just it became part of the normal testing process, but you never tested the whole system right CGI did not okay? No To mr. Slavitt when were you aware when were you made aware of the decision that the website would not allow browsing and will require registration first We weren't made aware of this until the final days prior to the launch that final day being what date was I believe it Was within 10 days Do you know who made that decision

44:23 Don't know I don't know made the decision. We don't know when the decision was made and we don't know why the decision And are you aware, but it was someone from CMS HMS administration of White House Do you have any idea? We don't know okay? Yeah? We don't know okay So now it's I think it's Darrell Issa Who is who is you know of course digging down as deep as possible and I think it's plausible that I think it's very plausible having looked at that spreadsheet and having heard what's taking place, it appears to me John maybe you have a different feeling but the insurance industry of course which is the financial industry. Insurance is finance Warren Buffett big insurer you know the money guys are all an insurance this is where big money goes so it's not just... She also mentioned

45:12 that Obama's number one group of contributors was the insurance company. This is what I'm about to say! Which is why he didn't go single-payer when he had this house...I don't think when he got elected president, he expected have the House and the Senate with a supermajority in the Senate US Senate where he could have ramrodded anything through because he had the you know 2008 when he was elected He had the public way behind him and he could've said we're gonna do single payer socialized medicine vote yes let's do it and they would have passed it but no he stalled. He didn't want to do that because he doesn't want that, he wants the insurance companies...he needs to pay them back. And I think that he or its not fair to say he..I think that the president and his Chicago cabal including Valerie Jarrett and all the scum Yeah he represents the group though That they did not expect the insurance company to fuck them

46:08 I'm telling you. They probably had a great song and dance, oh go with this it's going to be great! And your name is going to be attached as Obamacare. Exactly and then they turn around and shove it to him They really are. I mean, they're really really screwing him and of course the American public at the same time Yeah well this woman who said she had a $199-a-month plan that gave her all these benefits and now it's 270 bucks and she doesn't have any of the benefits She got higher deductible everything so this cost a lot more

46:45 My son's fiancé, Jessie had insurance and then she was working at a cheese making operation. And she lost her insurance because she went to go do something else so you've heard of Cobra? Yes Which is an extremely expensive kind of bridge Is it for 60 days or 90 days I think? It's 90 days of COBRA and you can extend it but its extremely expensive so if you have some healthcare provider and your working for a company they offer you COBRA which keeps it going because there is something about that way, you can kind of...it's all bull crap because that way we can kinda stretch it just like your still getting insurance then you get a different plan in the end. And this all kosher, it's a bull

47:28 bogus situation whatever consolidated omnibus budget reconciliation act yes and it's extremely expensive she got cobra then she looked at the Obamacare it was it was 30 bucks less than Cobra which is the most overpriced thing in the world gas that to get the cost you can't afford it no it's and and the deductibles are up to you know five thousand dollars it's a it's quite insane So and and and a part of this And this is why this is science guy, and we have one of our producers stack from who's in the Chicago area You want he goes down a rabbit hole and comes out in Australia? And goes where's the rabbit but he the stuff that he digs up and passes along. He's quite refreshing I sent me a link to a story from 2000 July 2010 and there we see

48:22 All smiling we have Jeffrey Zients. He's the guy has been brought in to to fix it he was a chief performance officer of the US government remember Along yeah along with Vivek Kundra Chief Information Officer and Anish Chopra Assistant to the president and Chief Technology Officer these are the guys who put the the the dashboard, the IT dashboard in place who were all about healthcare and automating it and the data. And this is Todd Park who was our current Chief Technology Officer who somehow is not mentioned anywhere, who came from Health & Human Services

49:01 In his role at Health and Human Services, he served as a change agent and entrepreneur in residence helping HHS harness the power of data technology and innovation to improve the health of the nation. This is on the whitehouse.gov biography page He by the way is the founder of Athena Healthcare Oh I did not know that Yes! And check this out So remember last year or the year before they had the healthcare data palooza? Yeah, vaguely. Remember and it was like everyone's excited this is essentially a place for these consultants and insurance companies and anyone who's associated with what is it the ABC Co., what is it the hold on the... What was the name of that drinking club we talk about

50:01 American business, whatever it is. The thing that... Yeah those guys are in. So you know that's like a big consultant meeting and Park of course is speaking at it and I go look at the page and there's a 2014 conference coming up. Hold on a second to bring up the link here Health Datapalooza number one sponsor AthenaHealth? That guy's own company! Is sponsoring this crap So this guy's the CTO. He was a, apparently he's been in the government as the CTO since 2009. He feathered this guy! This is the guy who... He was first the CTO of the US Department of Health and Human Services before became the Chief Technology Officer of United States

50:52 How come this guy's not being grilled? I don't know. Shouldn't he have something to do with this? Should i tell you why, I think...I think this guy has power. That's a possibility but the other thing is this job is bullcrap! It's waste of the taxpayers money they doesn't do anything now He's got no job at all This is just a payoff What did Anish Chopra ever do? He went around from place to place and gave speeches Yep. No, this is a disaster this whole thing what would the play I want to hear what ice has to say Oh I don't have no ISA wasn't there. I don't have ISA oh i thought isa was it there? No, no, no, no ISA is taking meetings with these consultants digging in and everyone knows it but that's why they're asking these consultants well what did you find out what does ISA know that we don't know did this order come from the White House now here's... We have a lot of really smart people who listen to this show and I got some analysis that I went oh well of course

51:51 So now we have that, so Zainz is brought in. Now this guy has been in before I believe that these guys were all in they knew this was coming of course in 2010 you know there so we had the Indian cabal as we've called them they set everything up they set up their outside guys including yeah the advisory board corporation and the advisory board corporation what they do is they are consultants to the healthcare industry And they were getting the, in fact I have a little clip here from... let me see if i can find the title of the clip is your company insurance company ready for the patient tsunami. So they were preparing everybody because they saw this as a huge boondoggle big big money coming. 24 million people are going to burst through your front door will you be ready for them?

52:47 Insurance companies are already competing just to be listed on the exchanges and their plans are going to be ranked, to make comparison shopping easier. See they knew it was gonna be great! When the exchanges go live it can net the insurance company's 24 million new customers who will then become your new patients and these patients may be young have a limited education or speak a language other than English They may even have unmanaged or undiagnosed chronic conditions and minimal experience with preventive and elective care. Pretty interesting what they were preparing, this is for the healthcare providers I guess, what they were preparing them for not the people you're seeing standing next to the president apparently on television but for immigrants who don't speak English who are sick very interesting what this advisory board corporation's doing so all these guys set everything up

53:35 ready for the big bonanza. They got out and they went to companies where they can go, you know make money off their stock options or whatever and then oh crap someone effed it up now they're coming back in and trying to fix stuff but here's here's the analysis I got we have this deadline now November 30th it's going to work Right? Which is another, it's one of those things rule number one in management of these projects never ever do that. Don't say it's going to be done by a certain date It just...it's dumb! That's what you do soft launch beta public beta there are million ways we mask this stuff You don't say IT'LL WORK

54:22 I'm going to presume that, and if this is not the case then i would be not just highly surprised it would be flabbergasted. I'm going to presume that across the board before this change order came in when things were working 10 days before perhaps the White House said oh my goodness we can't have people just seeing all these prices uh...we have to have registration slow down the process and get them in before we show them anything I would be surprised if none of these companies were using a versioning system. So it should be very easy to say, guess what? Let's all roll back 10 days before the rollout and deploy! It should work

55:14 That's how software is built in the big boy world. Yeah, well let's I got a clip here we have to buy wasn't gonna play but now i want to play it which is that we're not dealing with what you and I and people most of our listeners kind of understand Clay Johnson who would Clay Johnson was a member of the Obama administration He also is a developer that put together the original 2008, before he became a member of government and then I guess got ousted. In 2008 he put together the Obama websites. Ah right! And...He is talking on Democracy Now about this situation

55:57 Well, government doesn't have a lot of people to choose from when they're looking for contractors to build this stuff. And I think part of the problem is that the same people that are building drones are building websites. When government is building a website like this they have to use a system called procurement which is about 1800 pages worth of regulation that all but ensures that the people who are building this stuff are the people with the best lawyers not the people with the best programmers And so, you know you have this sort of fundamental lack of talent amongst the contractor ecosystem that's building the stuff. That it's bound to be bad work. That combined with the fact that in 1996 Congress lobotomized itself by getting rid of its technology think tank called The Technology Assessment Office So when they're writing bills they don't understand the technology that their requiring in there laws

56:54 This is what you get when you have a Congress that is basically brainless on technology and government who can only pick from a few old stodgy contractors. You're bound to have this result, and in fact the standings group came out earlier this week and pointed out that for all procurements over $10 million dollars 94% of them fail Mmm, yeah. I'm still not buying a no versioning system implementation that seems very unlikely to me It seems like this should be able to be rolled back to when it was working

57:32 Yeah, I'm on the opposite side of this argument. I'm with this guy really there is no versioning if they would have done that Really? You're telling me there's no versioning yeah That's what I'm telling you how come weren't those four hours of testimony How come there's not one single? single representative of our government who represent you in the People's Republic of California or me, in the great nation of Texas. Because we're our own nation that can ask this simple question? Well I think now that you brought it up uh...you could play Clay Johnson part two! What about CGI, the main contractor here? Have you had any experience with their track record in the past

58:19 I've never worked with them directly, but I can tell you from watching the hearing yesterday that from a technologist point of view both the questions from Congress were sort of absurd and not particularly helpful. And the answers from the contractors were also just demonstrably ignorant of the technology that they were managing. And so you have these bizarre exchanges where a member of Congress is asking the vice president of CGI Federal about code inside of the website that isn't even being displayed

58:56 uh... and um... isn't even relevant to the user and cgm of vp of cgi federal not even recognizing that it's not displayed in ninety one relevant to users really baffling set exchanges is like watching my one-year-old argue with mike at yeah now on with him on that too uh... but for about five hundred side Yeah, these are managers. It's very typical of a project like this but I'd just like to know can someone who gets out of the house which would not be you or i because we just armchair it could someone please ask these simple questions? Is there not a versioning system and hopefully... Listen! GitHub! Hello?

59:43 GitHub would be great. It's free! I would put money on them not using Github and they wanted to... No, no, I know they're not using it. Github was developed by Linus Torvalds as the de facto versioning system for all modern software developing And a lot of what they would need is actually in this There are lots of different version systems you can use and i'm sure that they will never use public system like github They would use any other number of systems and maybe still something from the mainframe world. I don't know, but that's how you do it! That is basic even i know this so if they can't roll it back to pre-the change orders then forget about it then November 30th is not going to happen either and what I'm hearing interestingly enough

1:00:39 a lot of noise out of Washington DC saying that this is all going to drive single-payer health care. Have you heard this at all? Yeah, this is a subtext in fact even Sean Hannity on one of his shows... This is why I'm suspicious because I'm thinking that this is wishful thinking or something. Well he's not advocating it no no he was just saying it and yeah now I don't know what your suspicions were where they stem or what where you think they're headed but Yes, the right wing is talking about this. I haven't heard Rush Limbaugh say anything but... No no he's also saying it apparently Okay that wouldn't surprise me Explain why explain just so we understand what is single? What is the difference between what is being shown now and single payer and why would the right wing be against it

1:01:27 Well the right wing, why would they be against it is the interesting question. Or why would they? Maybe they're not maybe they're propagating it for a reason I don't think so because single-payer is essentially here's I'll explain for people who don't know most people I think do but single payer is essentially the model of Medicare It is government health care. Essentially you go to the doctor or you go to a hospital and show your Medicare card, and then the single payer is the government. And so everything is based on a fee schedule. So you can't You can't take the price of some pill and then triple the price because you know that insurance companies are going to pay it because they will and that's what's been going on with the health care going up is because The big pharma is just gouge right but arguably Medicaid or Medicare is doing the same thing Medicare Medicare But Medicare is is paying those prices too. No, no medicare is paying

1:02:25 Medicare is paying some of it. The Medicare though, if you ever get the pure single that's because they're fighting against the there's a big fight going on because you can't have this mixed system with kind of single payer on one hand and then open warfare on the other with all these insurance companies So what would happen with one single payer went in place, which means it would be some people call Medicare for everybody Some people you know just simply call it single-payer Which means those it's all coming from one pot when it's all coming from one pot the government can say wait a minute Why are you doubling the price of this product out at the blue? I get it. I get it again now I know why the Republicans are using this as leverage they're floating this and

1:03:10 to probably get money out of the insurance companies, to say oh you know this is such a debacle. You know we could push towards single-payer but your not going like that maybe you should be financing my 2014 reelection Ron That's a cynical approach, I think you're probably right. Gee! You may have nailed it. Gee why am I cynical? Exactly that would explain a lot of it because the way single-payer is being dropped into there was a woman on... There are a couple of organizations that are promoting single payer and single payer was the thing that Obama like I said a few minutes ago could have pushed through right away and it would have been over The whole fight would have been done because everyone had been on Medicare Quick question

1:03:55 In the single-payer system, how is the money to pay for this extracted from the citizenry? Taxes? Just pure taxes is it... Well, now it's taxes and a combination of taxes and a fee. So if you're a Medicare recipient you have to pay in its very little money like a couple hundred bucks which amounts to a tax additional tax for you because your out... This is essentially the British... You can't take right now right hold on a second Right now you can't take Medicare out at the general funds because

1:04:31 applicable to a few people in the population. If it becomes applicable to everybody, in other words that would be called Medicare for all then there wouldn't be anything. It would become straight out of the tax pot so it's very similar and so if a single-payer full on system would be like the British health system Or Canada. Canada is a better example. Right, because the Netherlands is off it now The Netherlands effectively has Obamacare They actually rolled it out successfully Right but we know that the Netherlands as you've said over and over again are probably... Are the closest thing to more corrupt in terms of... Oh no! It's horrible

1:05:09 So they, for the Dutch to go off of single pair to this kind of thing which is a gouge system. It's unconscionable! And we saw it happen when we were... remember Miss Mickey was stuck in exile? The changeover date was January 1st 2013 And we saw all the ads and it was slick, man. It was really really slick but they had... The IT part worked! Of course that was done you know every I mean the Dutch government i think is just a bunch of guys who sit there in parliament everything is commercial Everything! But the Dutch people have no idea and then okay and everyone's paying more their services are less doctors are leaving the profession it's exactly what Obamacare is

1:05:59 Exactly the same except the Dutch are just silent. Let's argue about black Pete's morons Okay, all right So this is very interesting because I know you noticed it and I notice them like hey wait a minute There's all this this is going towards single-payer everyone's kind of talking about it so this must be the leverage and its It's possible, I'm not quite sure where the leverage is or who has it. Well i can say this single-payer has been talked about for 20 years and It's used and it is, now that you mention it I think its always been used. And I think maybe Obama got a lot of that millions and millions of dollars from the insurance companies by hint because he was a single payer guy Right He says, so why would all this if hes for single payer why do all these insurance companies go, why are they coughing up all this money?

1:06:52 Because they're out of business once single-payer goes through. They would be absorbed, it would be a pass through It would take awhile wouldn't be overnight they'd be shut down but their doomed So why would Obama who ran essentially on his single payer message Why would he get so much money from insurance companies and then not execute single payer? This is not you know... They leveraged the insurance company said, look here's what we're going to do. But wait a minute you know maybe we can put this off if you know we could use some money in the campaign coffers and it wouldn't hurt anybody worst case scenario or you know it doesn't work out for you but good chance that it might interesting

1:07:32 I personally think it would be better to have a single-payer system. It seems like... I've always felt that way You know, it's funny because we have there are certain things in America That I'll call capitalistic socialism and the other day The only one in all of Texas as far as I know is the Wheatsville food co-op And I don't know if people are familiar with the concept of a co-op But I like it. Am I nuts to like this? Am I some kind of commie now that I like this co-op thing? Well, you've always been something of a commie but that's because you're from Holland although they don't seem to be holding up their end of the deal. Let me explain... So no, the coops are very popular in California and they get very popular during the Depression. Now in France for example, coops are part of the culture there built into everything and in fact if you go to a wine growing area

1:08:28 there will generally be one or two, or sometimes even more co-ops and in famous wine growing areas as a matter of fact you go to Santa Milia on this is number of co-ops and the co-ops are for the very small growers who eke out a living. They bring all their grapes into the coop and they can either bottle it under their own label at the coop with free help from other consultants, or they can put it into a blend of other grapes, everybody, whole bunch of these get put in there and then share profits from some regional wine and this has been a way of doing business forever in France it's extremely co-op oriented we come in and out of it because people are like, how can you compete with that? It is unfair to small businesses. This IS a small business! That what I like about it let me explain for people who don't know what were talking about so this Wheatsville Co-Op they have two stores in Austin its grocery store and it's kind of a mix between

1:09:27 and what we call H-E-B here, which is just like a Ralphs in LA or you know kind of like a regular convenience store and Whole Foods. But the prices are in some cases interestingly enough cheaper than the market where the same products are sold by the producers so for instance um the pickles that I get and the rattlesnake oil is 80 cents cheaper at the store than the actual people who make it, who sell it at the Austin Farmer's Market. Now this of course has reason because bulk etc and the way works you can walk into the store just buy whatever you want

1:10:05 and you don't have to be a member or anything, or an owner as they call it. But if you become an owner then you have a vote. And one owner, one vote... You vote on the board members and you vote on what is done with the profits. It's a very simple majority no representative stuff for anything like that. You own one share and you get one vote and the majority vote wins And it's really nice because you do feel like you have some kind of influence and the prices are good. It typically has the products you want, and everyone is nice to me! That's my favorite part... Hello! Are you an owner? Why yes I am here's my owner card. Oh so nice and i say how are you doing today Rachel why thanks owner um and yeah they're not in for profit

1:11:00 They're in it for growth, certainly but not for insane growth and I have to say...I think it's a very nice system. And I don't think its anti-American This is funny, I can't think of the name of this operation called Vinium or some crazy thing like that and they just had a meeting where it was a co-op like organization It was actually done out of France and it's a co-op for making wine from, everyone contributes a certain amount of grapes. But it's making one or two barrels of wine and the people that are in the coop are all billionaires. And the whole reason for the co-op is so they can have their own label, their own wine that gets claimed that they blended. Well, of course this all... This is the opposite of what the whole purpose is. Right right well then there's that

1:11:49 Yeah, then there's that. Well anyway so I think at heart i'm kind of a single-payer guy all I know is everything it's messed up. Anythings better than this! Yes and all I see happening is general practitioners leaving just leaving the practice of medicine because they're being replaced by your health care provider which Which is pretty much a registered nurse, nothing against registered nurses and they're great but a registered nurse who is applying the band-aid. And for this you have to go see your specialist and the specialists are going to start making out like bandits

1:12:29 But the whole thing is it's very, it's wrong. Everything is wrong about this and meanwhile just to move along a little bit here's John Kerry our Secretary of State pontificating about how awesome we really are I've often said that America is not exceptional because we talk about ourselves as being exceptional beat our chests and stand up and say were exceptional It's not because we say we are It's because we do exceptional things. And we've always done that We're the nation that defeated the axis of powers and then invested billions of dollars in their recovery, and we never asked to be paid back All right so I just I'm playing this for a reason to say We have lots of asking-to-be-paid-back things going on

1:13:21 I'm playing it always has to be paid back. No, I'm playing this to say what you know our government is lame not our system but the execution...I'm sorry and now we'll get down to the hole i was in so example right here is this health care thing which is just very typical of our exceptionalism. We exceptionally suck in a lot of things that we've allowed our government to take over, and this is a great example! Now the other thing is this whole NSA spying business and this is kind of what I fell on while looking at the health care stuff...I don't know if you saw this but the Emperor, Kaiser Alexander

1:14:13 Did an interviewer with a Department of Defense blogger? Did you see this no, I'm so happy Okay. Yes No, he did an interview with the Department of Defense blogger now Let me explain a few things when you do an interview where you control the interviewer It's called propaganda It's not called journalism or an interview or anything like that. Now the I Spy No Lie is the title of the blog post and this was done by Jessica Tozer who blogs for the Department of Defense, and it gets even better because this 30-minute interview which of course was edited consists of Herr Kaiser Alexander sitting on a chair in his...in like a corner of his command center

1:15:11 Her questions are not heard, there's title cards. She's just sitting in the chair now you don't even hear her ask a single question and throughout the entire thing they've put like some Star Trek space music in the background like this is going to ease me at listening to his answers and at the end of this interview and I'd actually went back and found another clip from him...I am going to tell you that not only Kaiser Alexander a maniacal megalomaniac insane bubbling moronic idiot. I don't think he has any of the capabilities that are being leaked, i think he is playing in a sandbox, i think he's afraid of other people in government which can pretty much prove and he is just an overgrown douchebag who i think it probably lying about what you can do at all

1:16:13 The man is not well in his head. He has a funny look about him that... Oh, well let's listen and I made really short clips in general all about 40 seconds but I do have a couple because this was a 30 minute interview and just I was astounded! Instead of pulling clips I recorded the whole thing and had to cut it up because there's just too much this guy saying that proves he isn't right in his head Because America the United States runs on cyber You know, we do our banking online. We have all everybody has iPhones you have iPads you have computers computer networks the finance industry runs on computer networks. Do you hear this music? What's the point of that it sounds like some sort of a cheap uh well it has a funny eerie quality very so it's like some sort of

1:17:11 Yeah, propaganda. This is like that thing you did one time the propaganda bit I mean the the Hague thing yeah protect their freedom? Yeah this reminds me of that Intelligence work takes place within a strong legal framework We operate under the rule of law and are accountable for it in some countries secret intelligence is used to control their people In ours if only exists to protect their freedoms So he's talking about cyber a cyber as if this is some kind of thing now cyber where I come from means cybersex, but okay And that probably means Let's say if you say hey want to go cyber to some girl online or got a cyber boy. You want a cyber? Huh yeah? Is that what you want

1:18:15 All right, go on. Somehow when you say it's super creepy... Yeah well that was because I'm doing my super creepy voice We have the power runs off of data systems just about everything in our lives runs on computer networks and most of those are not as secure as they need to be And we are seeing, and if you look at over the past year and three months about over 350 distributed denial of service attacks. Ooh! 350 distributed denial of service attacks

1:18:55 What remember this is what there's like 350 a day And how much money is this guy getting for his department for this? I mean this he literally is talking This is the level. He's talking about and to me as you as we go through these clips It is so insulting on so many levels Yes, I understand A lot of people don't necessarily understand how the internet works but a helluva lot of people do on Wall Street And we've seen destructive attacks against Saudi Aramco in August of 2012. Yeah, who cares? Are you protecting Saudi Aramco now? And we saw destructive attacks against Ross Gas. Are we protecting Ross Gas now?! That's not our companies! In 2012...August

1:19:44 The one against Saudi Aramco wiped the data and destroyed the content of the data on over 30,000 computer systems. Now I don't know if he believes what he's saying John but the story as i read it and understand is there was a virus and there were thirty thousand desktops that were infected He's equating Windows workstation desktop to 30,000 data systems You know, you know it's called IT. It's called IT management. You know, you got to have some protection So yeah your computer I mean you're telling me that important data is stored on individual workstations? You don't have a backup forever and it's gone. And you don't have a backup This is this is scare mom fear-mongering and bullcrap Okay, keep playing. It's good

1:20:32 And then a similar impact on South Korea in March and again in June. Oh, remember? South Korea where all of the sudden the TV network flickered Remember that bull crap report? He's just propagating lies. 2013, so we see distributed denial of service attacks going on We see a lot of exploitation of intellectual property Exploitation of intellectual property! Theft of intellectual property. Theft! Theft of your Visa Mastercard type data Your social security numbers all this and you see disruptive and destructive attacks. Okay, so that's kind of his setup for why the NSA exists at all I didn't hear a single thing about terrorism or it's all about protecting our freedoms essentially

1:21:22 So now we have to bring it all together. This is the Kaiser talking about iPhone cyber command and the NSA an iPhone Okay, so they're great right you get to do neat things on it You probably got all these apps that you can do The problem with the iPhones in all the current phones is they're not as secure as your landline system What does that mean? They're not a security my land the iPhone is Not as secure as my land line system What does that mean? I don't know what doesn't me. I don't know But we would like to use those for iWallet right and for and he has this annoying Silicon Valley thing where he goes, right

1:22:03 at the end to... Oh yeah, right. So you don't question what he's saying? Banking and for all these other things so we've got to secure that infrastructure No no it is not your job to secure that infrastructure I'm sorry It is NOT your job to make the iPhone secure! It's not We have to do to fix our phones and vendors are gonna work that There are things that we have... Did you just hear that?! The vendors are gonna work that This guy is insane To do to fix our infrastructure And we all have to work that And then there are things that the adversary is going to try to do, steal intellectual property. We have to defend against that and then to disrupt our communications or destroy our communications infrastructure. It's in those last two it's actually across that spectrum where NSA and Cyber Command come together

1:22:51 NSA, think of that as the indications and warning and situational awareness for cyberspace. They're the ones that can see it just like we do terrorist communications you can see malicious software out there And cyber command is the one who would respond to it That's the platform for defending the DoD networks, defending the nation and responding as policy makers would ask us to do if someone were to attack us. I think John, he actually believes this bullcrap! He really is saying it like he believes it Like this protection of our communications infrastructure which the adversaries are trying to bring down all the time And it makes no sense Which adversary? Al-Qaeda? Taliban?!

1:23:43 They want to cripple our communications infrastructure? Really?! Of course, all of this that he is doing it's all okay because... All the oversight of the entire US government has its eyes on him. The oversight and compliance in these programs is greater than any other program in our government It's from within NSA by the General Counsel, the Inspector General the Oversight and Compliance Directorate, from the DNI's General Counsel and Inspector General and Civil Liberties and Privacy Officer by DOD's Inspector General and General Counsel. By Department of Justice, by The White House and by Congress both committees And so when you look at that... It sounds like a bunch of secret bullshit artists to me

1:24:32 A whole bunch of people analyzing this in secret, including the FISA court. These are ones who apply oversight and can see what we're doing. This is not a program that's secret it's one that Congress the administration and the courts have all approved And the court is the final one on this So from my perspective We have convinced all three of those if this is necessary Now very interesting words From my perspective he says we've convinced. We've convinced them this is very necessary not proven, not based upon the evidence that we have based upon fact... No, no or you know the right word would be shown yes but he said from my perspective we've shown that this is important they said we've convinced them yeah I mean truth always comes out there it is in other words convincing business not to say does

1:25:25 Trick you could also say tricked. Yeah, it should have used trick You must just get it cut to the chase Alright so now now we're about halfway through this interview and now he starts to go off the deep end and he has To explain to these stupid human resources of America who clearly don't understand that He is Superman protecting the world from cyber. He's going to give you some metaphors And so the question is it has been successful in Can somebody come up with a better way of doing it? That's the issue. We've not been able to come up with one, so we've been working with Congress and the courts but that's the best we can do right now. We protect civil liberties and privacy no content in the metadata program And I think that's the right way to run it You see nobody has come forward with a better It's like saying...we know how you know..it's like when you were younger this is for boys When your younger say I don't want take a bath

1:26:26 I said, no I'd never take a bath. Why would you want to take a bath? Well you gotta take a bath... blah blah blah. He said but isn't there a better way? Oh we don't so we had to take baths right or showers. How about a shower! What about here what is there what's the better way to stop terrorists and apparently only boys hate taking baths And he goes, take a bath daddy daddy da. What? This is this is not a guy I want running cyber. Daddy, daddy. Oh yeah. Well let's let's do another analogy. I liken this to holding a hornet's nest. Ah thank you okay so here we are we're holding this hornet's nest now I would like to give it to somebody else and say you protect the nation with his data set He's literally going oh yeah can't you do it better

1:27:13 I don't think so! Here, you hold the hornet's nest. Everybody is looking around saying, I don't want to hold that You hold it But somebody has gotta hold it For the good of the nation Remember, the oversight and compliance we have here is better than any other program ensuring our civil liberties and privacy and that of our allies. We do it better than anybody else. Oh yeah? So despite what the papers say in here...we do it better than anyone! We do it better than anybody I need one more analogy saying it just doesn't make it so what does this guy I need one more analogy let's see we've had taking a bath

1:27:50 We've had Hornets Nest. What else can we do? These programs were started to defend this country If you have a better way, put it on the table Again! This with the defensive Oh yeah?! Can you show me a better way You don't have a better one You got some better ideas Put it on the table If you don't let's discuss it But don't stop protecting It's like saying well we're not sure seatbelts protect people anymore Nobody has to wear seatbelts Right What would you say to your deaf children? Yeah, so if they said okay just put them in the back. You wouldn't do it would you? You wouldn't go back but you see we've learned that lesson on how we take care of our people. So when did the NSA get into business what year was it

1:28:43 It was right after the Truman administration wasn't it? I don't know. That part of the security system was done, they kept it a secret for a long time but what did they do with this fantastic mechanism to protect us from the 9-11 episode with the buildings and planes? Well apparently this is all just lessons learned. This has been going on! They were doing the same business that they could... No no no you see It wasn't until Kaiser Alexander came in because the NSA sucked so bad during 9-11, you see. For not connecting the dots. You didn't have the tools to these are tools that help us connect the dots Oh crap is the same old tools He has new tools John's thing is new tools What helps them connect the dot you he has no you what helps him connect the dots full information dominance That's that that is his word information dominance

1:29:50 Look it up, this is the word he uses. Information dominance But this guy's insane and by the way whistleblowing kills The problem is that the bad guys are amongst us They will figure it out This happened in 1998 after East Africa embassy bombings Somebody revealed publicly that the way we tracked Bin Laden was through SATCOM communications Within two days we never saw bin laden in communications again All right, so just to translate. Someone I guess he doesn't even know who uh leaked yeah they got so much information who was this someone leaked this incredible

1:30:32 Information that they were tracking Osama bin Laden through satellite phone technology, which of course The sand bunnies are too dumb to know but oh no someone leaked the information Now the man in the cave knows we're tracking his satellite phone. Oh my goodness He couldn't have figured that out for himself Dick My concern is the revealing of these programs allow terrorists to know the best weapons that we have against them. It will cause irreversible and significant damage, and it means that terrorists now have an upper edge in conducting attacks probably in Europe and potentially in the United States. Just like that! Stop them as reduced

1:31:16 And so when people die, those that are responsible for leaking it are the ones who should be held accountable. Hang them! Hey Glenn Greenwald you are gonna die! You're gonna be hung by the yardarm! Now he takes it further... That's what he is saying with the subtext is that our systems are so weak and we're so borderline incompetent that one little piece of information gets out. Like the fact that we're spying? It all falls apart because there's, you have no... The thing is not sturdy it's not rugged its weak its a piece of crap Well the proof is in the pudding Boston Marathon bombing the proof is right there doesn't work! Doesn't work

1:31:59 They didn't know, no one picked it up. No one knew anything these guys... I'm just telling you the official story These guys were over there and you know in former Russian states and getting information And mosques and everything It doesn't work! You're full of shit Kaiser But you know what? We gotta stop the press Well the other part is i think its wrong that newspaper reporters have all these documents 50 thousand whatever they have and are selling them and giving them out As if these, you know it just doesn't make sense. We ought to come up with a way of stopping it I don't know how to do that That's more of the courts and the policy makers but from my perspective It's wrong and to allow this go on is wrong Yeah we can't allow it to go on we have to stop them This guy is an anti-American douchebag You're right Let me play

1:32:51 Let me just let you know. I wonder if he considers himself a patriot? Ah, thank you for asking! All of these things are running together i think it's absolutely superb and by bringing that together our nation team cyber is better protected than it would ever be great people doing a great job they're the heroes It should never be a question in anyone's mind this leaker is not a hero He will have caused lives. I think that's irresponsible and significant damage to this nation, irreversible and significant damage And that will come out eventually But the people who are protecting us those people of NSA and Cyber Command they're the heroes They're the ones that deserve

1:33:36 the kudos from the American people. Kudos! Kudos for what have they done? Well, spying and... well okay so now I started to look around now you're the one that brought up the big 54 number The 54 number is incidents that the NSA has apparently stopped. Big 54 and I didn't pull the old clip from who was the guy that we played the clip from John? Yeah, he was a one of these briefing a bunch of staffers right. I can't remember his name All right, right The big Stafford a it was a Stafford a and he was in his and he went through the whole thing He says there was not there was no that was bad pretty much too bad You can't find that clip because it's actually funny bit in there where they even make claims That weren't true like the jury found there was no jury kind of thing

1:34:36 I could probably find that pretty quick. You'd be amazed let me see just go for 54 Let's see while I search them. Oh, I might make it lucky Well, so I went back and and I found I guess both of us missed this Kaiser Alexander on October 2nd was being grilled by Leahy Leahy and I think Leahy Somehow this guy... Oh no, I don't think we missed it. I know exactly what this clip is because i think we had this clip This is where Leahy calls him out on the 54. I don't remember this! Yes, we had the clip and we played it And what do you recall him saying about the 54? He says that was bullcrap Right So let's just... Play it again

1:35:25 The 54 turns out it was really only maybe 13 and not all of them. They were dubious, and it was mostly about money transfer there wasn't no real terrorist plots being stopped But the thing that I heard in this is about a minute-and-a-half listen to Kaiser Alexander melt into this little timid boy because I think A he knows that you know he's really running an empty shop B, I think Leahy has something on him. Yeah this...I got the same impression there's something up with this clip that you're gonna play. Somethings going on with this. He lays into them so hard. Yes right there is something going on. 54 terrorist plots were thwarted by the use of section 215 and or section 702 authorities That's plainly wrong but we still get it in letters to members of Congress We get it in statements

1:36:21 These weren't all plots and they weren't all thwarted. The American people are getting left with an inaccurate impression of the effectiveness of NSA programs Would you agree that the 54 cases that keep getting cited by the administration were not all plots? And other 54, only 13 had some nexus to the US Would you agree with that yes or no Yes Okay In our last hearing Deputy Director English's testimony stated there is really one example of a case where but for the use of section I like to just yes, yes he's saying just yes done. Yes and now he tries to crawl back a little bit by saying well you know but only 13 were in the U.S and Leahy is going to shut his ass down listen 215 boat phone records collection terrorist activity was stopped. Is Mr English right?

1:37:23 He's right. I believe he said two, Chairman. I may have that wrong but I think he said two and I would like to point out that it could only have applied in 13 of the cases because of the 54 terrorist plots or events only thirteen occurred in the U.S., business record FISA was only used in 12. Shut up! What I worry about is some of these statements all as well And we have these overstatements what's going on. We're talking about massive, massive, massive collection and we told them that we have to do that uh...to protect us and then statistics are rolled out if they're not accurate it doesn't help with the credibility here in the congress doesn't help with the credibility of this chair. I'm not even hearing Leahy being on our side of this argument i'm hearing him like hey listen you little twerp shape up your statistics you moron

1:38:17 Yeah, you're making us look bad. Yeah! You're making us look bad when you know... you're slipping! So I am of the opinion after listening and if you see this interview Of course in the show notes 560 dot NA show notes com with a creepy music going on the whole time It is unnerving and I do not believe The NSA is capable of anything except after the fact They are essentially a big data storage and the FBI and other agencies can subpoena... Well, the IRS started using them. Right so they can subpoena information And the FBI's using them this is just a sweep it's a drag net Exactly There's other aspects involved in only Dennis Kucinich The only guy so far that I've heard who says this and I have the clip here Only Dennis would say this here he goes

1:39:12 of surveillance that's occurring of world leaders. But there is another issue here too, and I know we don't have a lot of time but keep this in mind We don't look at Germany as being a threat There is not some terrorism issue here but there is an economic issue And we've got to start asking questions Is this spying being done to advantage certain corporate interests in the United States against other corporate interests globally? Because terrorism isn't an issue here That's a very good point We need to know. We need to find out. Yeah, Al Jazeera had a great... Al Jazeera America had a very good piece on this and this does kind of flow into where I think a lot of this is headed you know yesterday there was a big or there was supposed to be a big demonstration in Washington called Stop Watching Us

1:40:01 And it's a little, was this an EFF thing? Because if you go to the website. It doesn't really say who is behind this and they had...they didn't really I mean whoever did this and they had professional signs They really sucked okay! It was..and now i'm all for the protesting I think its good You know I did see some homemade signs so I think some people are getting into protesting Stop watching us The celebrities that they have We're Wil Wheaton, Maggie Jiggin Jagan Hall, whatever her name is. Daniel Ellsberg

1:40:40 I think they had one senator now if Will Wheaton had gone to DC and he may have but I certainly didn't see him. They had no celebrities, they had no one piping up No one there for you know for the big show and so here's how NBC portrayed The demonstration Hundreds of demonstrators marched on Capitol Hill today protesting NSA surveillance. And cheering a fresh message from their hero in Moscow, fugitive ex-NSA contractor Edward Snowden. Do you hear how this is being positioned? Isn't that interesting? Their hero in Moscow!

1:41:21 Tea Party Republican Congressman Justin Amash said Snowden... This is mind-boggling that this is George Stephanopoulos, a Clinton operative. A Democratic party operative. But this is Stephanopoulos? Yes! Well then this is ABC Oh, maybe ABC. I'm sorry why does NBC? Maybe it's not him It doesn't matter to NBC Whatever it is. It's not its anti right-wing Its pro Obama administration and yeah, it sounds like in a hundred protesters at me Why even cover it but but that's not I mean the you get the throwin Snowden's in Moscow open America's eyes to what the NSA is doing Are you grateful that he's done what he did

1:42:00 We wouldn't have the reforms of NSA if not for what he did. The rally comes amid yet more fallout overseas from the Snowden disclosures. Okay, so we have to talk about... What reforms? There's no reforms! It's no reforms, what is he talking about? Another vapid vacuous cipher. The German magazine Der Spiegel which has gotten access to some Snowden documents reported today the NSA had actually targeted German Chancellor Angela Merkel cell phone since 2002 By the way it's Anguilla not Angela while she was still an opposition leader

1:42:37 This just days after President Obama was forced to personally apologize to Merkel over earlier disclosures of NSA snooping, as well a presidential pledge to Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto to investigate reports the NSA hacked into his computer. But one world leader did rally to the NSA's defense. Who could that be? Who would be rallying to our defense? Let me see. Somebody we have a special relationship with... British Prime Minister David Cameron. The point is what Snowden is doing and to an extent what the newspapers are doing in helping him doing, what he's doing... Okay! To the extent that newspapers are helping doing what he's doing to the thing he was doing while I was doing this and doing that it's not good. What the newspapers are doing in helping him doing what he's doing

1:43:24 Who wrote that? Who wrote that?! Fire that guy. He's frankly signaling to people who mean to do us harm how to evade and avoid intelligence. Wow! Wow! Crap, was he butt-fucking Kaiser Alexander I'm sorry... That was my Tourettes. I'm angry about this This is so insulting. This is SO insulting How these people are propagating this message and the news media is not calling anyone on this. What are they talking about?

1:44:01 This is, it's simply not true. We just went through a half hour of listening to all this fantastic stuff that the NSA does which is normal like you know wow gee what a surprise we sniff packets or whatever we listen to phone calls but because the terrorists now know this oh my god we're all going to die and this is being propagated by world leaders CBS Oh man, they have no shame. Protesters in America? Don't look at that! I've always been convinced and you know this even though you think ABC...I have always believed CBS is at the forefront of this.

1:44:38 Some of the strongest allies of the United States are among its most vocal critics tonight amid revelations that the NSA eavesdropped on world leaders. Several hundred demonstrators rallied near the US Capitol this afternoon criticizing the practice of electronic surveillance and that's enough about that but as Kelly Cobia tells us it is anger far from Washington that's actually better by all accounts, the leaders of Germany... Alright so then we have I think this Kelly woman, now she had it right and this is where we're gonna kind of... Wait before i get to that let me play you a little bit of Ture. Ture the...Ture who probably right now was on MSNBC saying oh Lou Reed died wow that's horrible which he did by the way Lou Reed died yes I know he died yeah uh it was tweeted yes so horrible because Turay as a music journalist or a music aficionado or whatever

1:45:37 as a, as a, or as a prostitute. How does he defend what this administration is doing to the American citizenry? Once when I was a kid, I did something really bad and my dad took me down at grandmother's house and told her what I did and she pulled me aside and she said it's not bad that you did it. It's bad that you got caught and i think that's what we have going on here, that it is really bad that we got caught in my damaged cell phone. Wait grandma told you that? Oh absolutely she was totally more a relativist love her god rest their soul but uh... you know where its gonna damage some relationships but if we weren't doing intel spying on people like this

1:46:12 Angela Merkel, Kim Jong-il, anybody. Then we would be derelict in our duty of course we should be spying on these folks We have to have the information that's why we have a CIA. We have to know look Germany in particular is shoring the euro. We have to know that what they're telling us publicly Is what they actually believe privately so we can have confidence in whats going on in the Eurozone I cant believe hes saying this Hold on you did this to me a couple times and im doing it to you I don't want to hear another clip from that idiot ever again. But he's so entertaining! He is an idiot, okay? All right you have every right in the world...I will not play another clip from him ever no matter how good it is uh So they're not good none of them are good It's just a guy who shouldn't even this guy should not be on the air

1:47:05 He's just an idiot. He is going on and on with this kind of bull crap Now that said, I do have a clip from France 20... like Van Cat on spying and this was they have these little round tables and they put together a little team. They had to get from Huffington Post but the guy that they first started talking to is a French guy even though he has a weird English accent, I don't know where's where he learned his English but he talks and i think... And this is the meme thats been you've been complaining about it uh... I've been complaining about this this guy exhibits the same meme from a french perspective

1:47:41 And I think it's unacceptable. Business is business and the business of intelligence is snooping, and snooping on each other is part of the game It is expected! It always has been so from World War II and ever-ever So what I think that is shocking to French and Europeans Is not spying by itself but the extent and systematic character of spying which they did not suspect. But perhaps, I mean that's the senior correspondent in you Spine You know how the world works but as a private individual do you care any way in anyway shape or form that perhaps your SMS is sent to your family or to your businesses may have been intercepted and read? You see, a British colleague of mine wrote a long piece on that what I remember is that I could not avoid the conclusion he said

1:48:35 unless you want to go back to the caves there is no way you can avoid it so if you can't beat them just accept it then? I mean, imagine... Paul says if you can't just accept it! now we take this back and let's go back to what's really going on here blackmail insider trading yes espionage industrial espionage which we were always trained was a bad idea and a bad thing that has to be stopped. That's what we're doing it this and I think has been proven with the I think Kucinich nailed it there is no terrorism plot coming from Merkel's phone she's not going to be talking about let's you know lets bomb something so why is she being monitored? Well first of all, because she would say information that leads to somebody making a profit yes in the eurozone! And by the way she would say lets bomb

1:49:31 Kaiser Alexander actually, I'll go back to this. He explained the French example and in his explanation he admits we have record or...I don't know if you want call it recorded but we have a copy of the content This is what's so funny about his answer, which again no one will talk about. No one will analyze this... And I think what has happened is the papers convolute these stories and they immediately say 70 million you know think of it as we got one today about 70 million phone calls being intercepted in Paris over 1 month time period Think about that! 70 million phone calls Now I don't know how many phone calls you get a day Let's say 30

1:50:15 Well, let's say they're in a foreign language because most French people speak French. Just putting that on the table just not a hard thing to follow it's not complicated It's not complicated what how patronizing can you be a whole so you'd need French linguists? And if you did two million French phone calls today listen to them and tried to write them down How many people would that take I? Yeah, a few more than two. So you know their average analyst might be able to do one every 15 minutes four an hour times eight That's interesting information our average analyst only does it fifteen minutes He's giving away the fact that they do this so you know of their average by the way That's a breach

1:51:06 That's a security breach right there. Of course it is, of course the guy his name is Kaiser Breach Alexander. ...might be able to do one every 15 minutes for an hour times 8 32 divide 32 into there you're gonna need about...you know little bit less than 100 thousand people just for France and France is now I its absurd they get wrong actually has nothing to do with collecting on France but the reporters who got this see this data quickly run to the wrong conclusion The conclusion is you can't even do it. Well, the wrong conclusion is obvious. It's about industrial espionage it's about blackmail it's about insider trading so the wrong conclusion is that they're spying on the French there is no conclusion The mainstream media except for Kucinich who was not in the media has never brought this possibility up all they talk about is terrorism Now I'm going to

1:52:07 I'm going to get to a place with some help from one of our producers. First back to CBS, who of course called the real potential issue that is being discussed now at the EU summit. The US seemed just as surprised to find another secret was out thanks once again to NSA leaker Edward Snowden Now senior White House officials tell CBS News that they're warning their allies about what Snowden might release next. Interesting, right? So this is very interesting what's taking place here and I think there's something behind it... Can we stop before you say go on can i ask something here of course

1:52:46 Didn't Snowden release all this stuff already to be doled out? Well, when people say that what they're really saying is Glenn Greenwald or Laura Poitras. Snowden's out of the loop! Yes no he's given everything apparently you know this is all just being handled by Pierre Umgjar at eBay now So this report is basically inaccurate from the get-go Yes, and no you and just let me follow through on this. Okay? I'm just gonna say it's what people to realize that This is this is dramatizing bull crap. This is the same as wikiLeaks wikiLeaks was not releasing anything WikiLeaks had given information for analysis to The Times to Spiegel to the Guardian It's the same thing it is

1:53:37 Press and who controls press who controls media? Corporate entities and governments control that so this is something on a bigger scale that has nothing to do with little whistleblowers And I would also say has nothing to do with little green walls. I think they're just peons in a bigger game, and part of the game is coming to play here in this report There is a better understanding Of what Snowden has but there's no way of knowing the next shoe to drop German leader Angela Merkel said her trust in the US has been severely shaken after allegations this week that the NSA tapped her private cell phone. Snowden's latest batch of leaked documents delivered to a newspaper also alleged that the NSA accessed tens of thousands of French phone records and tapped the phones of 35 world leaders

1:54:26 State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said spying tactics were under review. We want to ensure we're collecting information because we need it and not just because we can. Germany and France are demanding to know why the National Security Agency threw such a wide spying net they were caught up in it They want the US to sign up to a code of conduct like the no spying deal that U.S has with Canada, Britain Australia and New Zealand. And there's talk of multi-million dollar fines for us companies who don't protect the privacy at their European customers. There's a lot at stake, including a massive free trade deal with Europe. The European Union and the German intelligence service are both sending teams to the US next week to meet with government officials about spying but as one former French foreign minister put it let's be honest we eavesdrop too Okay now I got an email from um... one of our producers and she uh... i believe is in the military uh... I did not talk to her about

1:55:30 I'm not gonna mention, i'm not going to give a name but I do want to read this note because it got me thinking that maybe we're seeing this thing completely wrong and and that maybe it's not just the individual pieces but there might be a coordinated attack taking place. Adam thank you and John for your courage so I'm listening to the show and you're talking about Frau Merkel being so pissed. I'd like to draw your attention to something I believe is one angle remember The Bricks Everything ties together nicely when you stop thinking in terms of Putin and Russia, and see everything as the BRICS. That's Brazil, Russia India China and South Africa

1:56:07 who would love to make a competing bank to the IMF and the World Bank. Now go back to the Snowden leak, the countries named were Brazil India China and the EU in Germany outside of Germany everything falls into place except for Germany but you can't do a massive takeover of the banking industry without it without the EU and more importantly Germany behind you Brazil, as we know refused to come to a state dinner. Next thing that happened is Brazil's calling for an immediate meeting of the Latin American countries followed by protests at the UN meeting where does Greenwald live? Brazil Where is Snowden right now Russia

1:56:44 China is calling for a less Americanized world. Snow did land at first in Hong Kong, then moved on to Moscow Now we have France and Frau Merkel furious Germany signed the huge trade deal with China a year or two ago Where's Laura Poitras? Germany Keep an eye on trade deals with the BRIC countries or larger trade deals in South America Also watch Germany's energy problems Russia I think will swoop in and save Germany's energy problem soon Russia just passed the anti-Hollywood laws, just in time for China to build a new movie studio. Again I think the BRICS have been overlooked and are not taken seriously. Imagine what the world would look like if say a few Latin American countries other than Brazil Germany and the African countries and China leave the IMF and World Bank and join a new BRICS bank

1:57:32 I don't think this will happen tomorrow, but it could be a power play in motion. John's Saudi theory makes sense even more so if you take the BRICS into account The Saudis are furious over Syria Kerry testified before Congress that the quote ARABs were willing to pay for everything Obama not invading as Bush would have done is probably the final straw they could be pissed about Oops where am i? Pissed about Houston's involvement the Clintons and Leviathan The Saudi Royals cannot be happy about how much oil and gas Israel has their hands on now And so this goes on for a little bit. But when you think about this, and this kind of got me into an into a new view of all of it... It is very possible that the United States is under a coordinated attack from Brazil Russia India not-so sure where they fit in but you know you gotta watch them China and what is being used is the so called Snowden

1:58:32 who we really don't know all that much about. We've seen a video of a guy, one video you know we got a lot of talk from people coming from the EU specifically from Germany specifically Glenn Greenwald from Brazil maybe were under attack John and the credibility is the first thing that's going we need to kill this TTIP deal so Russia maintains dominance over their largest customer which is the EU And maybe there's something going on that a picture so big we're not even seeing it. I could imagine, and I would also assume the Russians had something to do with it. Well they're part of the BRICS! At least that part of it, not the Saudi part which would be China but the Chinese maybe have something to do with the whole thing? We don't know... You read about- But our bankers are really international. I don't know this is uh

1:59:23 I would side with a couple of things that I want to back up on. One is the industrial espionage angle of the NSA I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing for Americans except for the fact that the Americans are not benefiting. We have this ridiculous unemployment rate, if you look at shadow stats it is pushing 25%. There is a bunch of rich dudes that are really benefitting from this and its not being redistributed to the public at large so they have a problem on their hands which is the public relations aspect of all this. No one is going to be sympathetic

2:00:01 to industrial espionage it doesn't benefit everybody and it's then it doesn't so which is bullcrap if anybody can come out of this winning though I really always can't I just can't imagine us being beaten at our own game oh it's really hard for me too because that's all we do. I was with somebody recently and it was like were discussing there from Well, hold on. Let me just back up you said all we do is industrial espionage uh cheat and lie and spy on people for financial gain? Yeah! Okay that's our game And we're good at it damn it No we're really good at it and I was at a luncheon and there was this woman from New Zealand another American was sitting and we were talking across the New Zealand I'm sorry I'm just loving how he's like yeah that's what we do and we're exceptional

2:00:56 And so all of a sudden we just started talking about stock market and this kind of... I turned to the woman from New Zealand, and said yeah by the way you're witnessing what Americans do. It's all we do is we just talk about money making money somehow whatever methodology we need to employ. That's true! Welcome to America that's what we do. We think about this constantly Would you like your seat at the table? How we could... In business in America, I've learned the whole game is how can i screw that guy out of his money before he screws me out of my money. There is that element. That's kind of what we do get so far we were honed like a fine weapon But he thinks that Yeah, I mean and you're right Kaiser Alexander is exhibiting bonehead characteristics He is not the guy for the job They got to get rid of him but if anybody thinks that the that the Russians or the Europeans are any of these these

2:01:52 old-fashioned stodgy characters and include the Chinese in this who have all kinds of cultural issues can beat us at our own game. It's crazy talk! Yeah, play it out let's see what happens and then we'll you know... Okay okay so right let's follow with this logic for a moment here is the problem and wow this is very very deep as someone who really has always loved his country it's very hard to say Because I love people in the universe and I want rainbows and unicorns, but it appears that in order to maintain that stance maintain that we We are have this we are good at spying and cheating And stealing and again whatever it takes maybe it's not even that made whatever it takes to get a foot a foot up a leg up an advantage

2:02:50 But we always have had this big backstop where we'd say, oh and by the way if you don't like it I'm gonna kill you. And this administration has been whooshy! Not only have they not said we'll kill you but They've taken it down to some dumb level of like drone strikes. You know, there's no big grand threat anymore and I think that if we take your... Well the letter writer pointed this out that the Saudis might be irked by the fact that we weren't like trigger happy when it came to Syria and even though I personally think all these idiotic wars in the Middle East are useless

2:03:31 But I can see where somebody would think well, you know the Americans they'll go in there They'll go in there and they're going crazy And we didn't because that's what we're known for and we piss on dead bodies and stuff. Yeah No weird to completely Meanwhile Yes meanwhile China and this follows on your new revelations on Thursday Is very close to a deal with Turkey for their missiles over NATO supplied stuff and people are freaking out And I and it's turkey insane Erdogan is I mean well that turkey. I believe that the Turks have watched this crap going on in the

2:04:25 and they know that there the Islamists have taken over Turkey, they haven't gone all the way yet but they're headed that way to Syria and all the rest of it. And they know what...they see the rubble Next door they're looking this thing. You know these Americans are not really Yeah, they talk a big game don't clean up their room. They don't clean up their rooms are making a mess and we're next yeah so there they're there by the way if you buy a missile from I Don't think this is publicized and I can't prove it. I don't know it's true but If you buy a missile from Raytheon

2:05:05 That missile will not hit an American target. No, it's programmed not to have beacons Yeah, its program of course is not gonna hit an American target now We got a little beacon said that beep beep beep beep don't hit me and It's like that the tape you can buy that that that glows at some view its What infrared tape that you put on your top of your helmet? And you won't get droned oh yeah, I hear that's really effective four billion dollar deal for the Chinese to supply missile weaponry to Turkey. This is really, really... this is big! Yeah that's bad it's not good but then again they could all be sabotaged for all you know And part of what's going on here I think also has to deal with the so-called internet freedom. I think that this will come into play very quickly That the United States is abusing Internet freedom

2:06:06 You can just see it happening. I really have a feeling John that we are on the losing end of the stick here It is and i'm just saying the collective We that The United States, it just seems like every single day boy you guys are bullying dickheads Or am I misreading the message? No, well I disagree with your final conclusion. But no what you're saying is evidence that keeps... and i think it's one of those deals where you're down and out for a moment You are in a wrestling match or boxing match And then you are knocked down to the ground and look around and see who is still rooting for you and who has taken the other guys side

2:06:50 You have to do that once in a while because there's a bunch of turncoats out there that will, you know they're all your best buddy. Then the next thing you know they're not your best buddy it turns out well right you know when you go back to the top of the heap uh these guys pay the price I think we may be in the process of taking names just wait until yeah just wait until we decide not to give the next Batman movie to you Europe That could be part of it Well, I find that... The Russians don't seem to want to watch our Batman movies. No. How do they? Well they do! They just want to get paid extra for it. The whole thing i find is fascinating but my conclusion really is along the lines with yours as you know just we're not good at spying when we don't really have any capability We are good at sucking stuff up and storing it even that apparently seems to be an issue since the data center keeps exploding or whatever the report is

2:07:47 But when it boils down to it, I think there's no capability. It's a bunch of empty suits who talk... The NSA? Well not just the NSA but everything! They're all just empty that talk a really big game and we're great at show business and PR and propaganda but really there is not a lot to show for it And you know this is not like our cars You know what I mean All hats No cattle Well, there's that element. The cars... American cars have never been top drawer But isn't that just kind of par for everything? Well I do like the new Cadillac Really?! There is one Cadillac that i think it really well designed It probably still a GM junker but.. Its a new one? Well ill show you a picture of it Its just a real slick looking car Theres a couple of them

2:08:44 Well, on that note... Anyway I did just want to wind up by saying that i'd like to know who if the EFF, the Electronic Frontier Foundation was behind the huge demonstration of almost 100 people? Which well they the EFF on their home website says it was a couple thousand people But if they were behind it, you know they need some help. Because it was not well executed and all it did is just functioned as a little bit of b-roll to talk about Angela Merkel Nothing about the actual mission... Maybe that's the point Well this is what I'm worried about! This an outfit that got 8 million dollars in 2012 for their donations

2:09:38 I pulled their form 990 just kind of as a lark to see. You know, they got like $1 million in executive salaries They have 3 million in other salaries Most of them... only 1 million bucks or so comes from donations The rest all comes from corporate You know, even lawsuits like $250,000 they won with litigation. It's kind of becoming a little bit of like the weird lobbying thing and it just not to be trusted in my mind I hate say it I'd like to trust them but I can't! When you fail so miserably at this if indeed they were behind this stop watching us...you got to figure out better ways to use your eight million dollars

2:10:29 Yeah, well they're not experts at this sort of thing. That's the problem I do have a couple of offbeat clips that we can play or we can Why don't we should we go thank some people? Yeah, i think it's a good idea Is it the SRX crossover that you like no because it's a dog I don't like it. No, I'm just trying to figure out which car you would like. Cross doors themselves to me is a weird element Do you like the ATS sedan maybe? There's one that's a two-door and it has a very futuristic look at that Oh the CTS coupe Maybe... well thats the little sports car thing Yeah, thats 2 door Yeah its true Anyway Im not buying a car if thats what your wondering No no I was curious I think Cadillacs are very ugly

2:11:30 No, there's a good-looking... There are two good looking ones. I like that little sports car and there is another one that looks great. They're ugly! Well it's ugly to you? You're in Texas you should be seeing these things commonly. Hello, I'm in Austin Oh yeah right everything is BMW Gerald want thank a few people who helped us out to celebrate 6th anniversary Gerald Gione in London Canada 17777 thanks for six great years A bag of six little stripper rain Wishing karma on the two of you. Thank you. Oh, that's nice So he gave us the 11111 which is making it rain and a bag is a sack of sixes very nice Yeah, I was very creative. Thank you. I'm ed I mod uLOD in lawn grof 134 40

2:12:16 Congratulations on six. What he did was cleaned out his PayPal cash. Yeah, we love that it's a great idea. Which is what people should do! We have Zachary Wilson in Wildermar, California 111-11 Andrew Lemansoni who has been consistently giving us... Lemessony. 1-11-11 Colorado Springs making it rain Jacob Scherer and Crystal Minnesota Nuts Making it rain 111 11 John Richard in New Orleans 100 says beaver time not sure what that means crocutta computer services and Pacifica, California over here $100 Adam Smith in Calgary Alberta where all the money is a hundred dollars Charlie Brown 78 have a note alrighty Handwritten note came in Charlie Brown. What do you say? ITM ITM thanks for your courage

2:13:14 I have a set amount of money. I donate to charities throughout the year, i've been pondering how I might redistribute those donations this year and make room for a real charity case the no agenda show you'll be happy to know that I figured it out my boss David has been a real bully to me recently making threats that he's going to call me out as a boner on the show for not donating. I like these companies where the boss is a listener. Coincidentally our employer has just begun their annual charitable contribution drive this week since you are not on my employers list of potential donation recipients, i'm sending you my donation directly 78 which is three dollars per paycheck it seemed like the logical way to respond to the cloud of crisis

2:13:57 You can do your part in bully prevention now by de-douching me. Well, hell yeah! Here we go... You've been de-douched Absolutely And he actually has calls K7HYK Yes Keila Fox 5, she hardly even remembers her Exactly We had a gathering of the Noah Jenner hams Friday night Yeah? How'd it go? It was great Random dudes talking away. That's what they do, that's what hams do. Until there is an emergency! Then we will save the universe! No it's not true. It's not true... maybe a little bit true but.. Justin Fish 7777 in Cloquette Minnesota nuts?

2:14:51 He thought a 666 donation would be supporting my competition and he's been receiving through air time the past few hours. My donations blah, blah, blah. Okay, I don't know. Alright, great perfect. Karsten... okay well here we go 69! 69 dudes! Nice! Karsten Nielsen in Denmark 69-69 Brian Brown in Orange, California and Maxwell Fry in Brooklyn New York and Edward Hines in Jacksonville Florida Now we get our full on list of sacks of sixes which is a highly appreciated. Oh wait We know you're right. You're right Norristown Pennsylvania decided to jump jump the line Uh-huh donate 66 67

2:15:38 Not so sure what to make of that. Well, he's there. Okay here we go 66 SACA 6s Jay Zuckel in Los Angeles California Scott Henkle in Sunland California Bulldog PC in Athens Georgia Christian Schroeder in Coal Valley Illinois Joseph Gould in Raritan, New Jersey. Jason Becker in Austin Texas right up the street from you Robert Evans San Jose California right down the street for me Aaron Kramer and Sewickley Pennsylvania Sam Leung in Toronto he's been on everything Sir Sam to you sir Sam to me Brian Morton Casper Wyoming Baronette Tess Janice Kang and Milpitas Omar Munoz in Mexico City

2:16:22 Barry Kroger in Greeley, Colorado. Charles Eaves in Lake Zurich Illinois. Mora Carlos in Hong Kong Paul J. Sanowski in Winooski, Vermont? I think Sankowski. Sankowski! I'm sorry it's exactly right. Sankowski Rick Barkhouse in Smith Falls Ontario Robert Johnston in Phoenix Arizona Michael Miller and Tiburon California Christopher Dexter in Richland Washington Chris Cowan right up the street from you in Austin Texas 6666 Sir Chris Jacob San Rafael California

2:17:01 uh... robert muller robert mueller in virginia it's just a big virginia the former fbi director hey robert assert brian barrow and routine bassett in the u k lorence shell in lancaster california chris to her heart in abbotsford dc uh... sam harrelson in columbia south carolina daniel rudin n cedar rapids iowa michael robertson milwaukee or oregon Brielle Garling in Shoreline, Washington. Christopher Yaggy in Kanata Ontario Canada. Brielle by the way of course is Lee Mancello's babe sister I think. Ah yes Daniel Votower in Scarborough Ontario Canada Sam Menner in Box Hill South Victoria, Australia Jeffrey Lentz

2:17:59 Jeffrey Lentes, Lenches in Helvetoslus. Helvut Slaus. Eventually I'll have one of these down. Kurt Winkelmuller in Kirwin Australia Robert Kane and Columbiana Alabama Martin Oosterhout in Albany, New York. Drew Veneman in Genoa Illinois. Sir Dean Bertram in Bibbera Lake Washington Marinus van Poepselen Marinus van Opzeland? Marinus Van Opzeland in Appletum Apeldoorn

2:18:43 I like Apple Doom better though, that's great. The R runs in the end. Believe me if you've ever been to Appledorn Apple Doom is pretty good. I'll take that in on advice Willie Thunison Thunison Thunison in Grave Grave Francine Hardaway, sorry Fran. Name Francine for us. By the way John when I give you the Dutch pronunciation pronouncing it like a Nazi is not necessary. I'm just telling you the Dutch are little sensitive

2:19:21 Dave Francine Hardaway yes. Yes and half of the way, Coach Holburton, Copperopolis California which is a cool place Baron Esvon stealth mode James Murray in Huntington Beach California cutting-edge solutions in Glasgow Scotland Chris Berger we had a lot of people came in yeah Alice Wisconsin Marseille Marcel Marcelli Jodin in Houston BC, Richard McCutcheon in Odenton Maryland Nathan Goldsmith in Tucson Arizona Kevin Lacombe and Port Orchard Washington another cool area Sir Mitch Bidron in Long Beach California Martin Volprecht in Berlin Deutschland

2:20:07 Arthur Goebbels and Zandam again, again with the Nazi thing. How's it Nazi? Well you can believe me with as this with a sensitive Dutch ear You know Really yeah little bit Yeah It's okay I've said it so people understand It's not intentional Let's try to do in more Swedish Oh that's worse Chop or tap in Canmore Alberta Matthew Shower in Beverly Hills, California. Nice! Thank you for your courage he says Sir James Monn in Ringgold Louisiana Daniel Trellio has got a birthday coming or somebody does in Charleston South Carolina I just want to thank Jim Ketel Fox 5 Yankee Alpha Echo Stepanov Victor in Russia we get so... don't say my name he says please call me Mr Snow well I guess that didn't work out did it?

2:21:05 He says he's worried that Freddy the Firewall will stop this donation. Well, no it didn't. Freddy the firewall never stops a donation! Karsten Ove Schwarz-Nielsen in Denmark Thomas Bissell in Reno Nevada or Nevada as I stupidly say it once in awhile Maurice Tate and Sacra Tomato California Andre Rodriguez in Portugal I don't know where he is in Portugal. I can't yeah the so we're gonna see a moment later Alexander Scholes Scholes burger in Deutschland oh this is interesting oh this is uh this is our friend from Ghana West Africa, he's a knight Eric

2:21:54 as a as an s as nice as in lawndale california kurt anderson in new hope minnesota uh... basheer osman in middle sex u k royce cook army in at by idea how white surge eighty in san jose a california bogden lynch it bogdan that chendro in irvine texas Trisha Peterson in St. Louis, Missouri and that concludes our donors Thank you for our donors for this part of the show We still have some donors to mention but these are the people who gave us 6666 so we thank them profusely And everyone else who was Leading up to today has handed a sacks of sixes it's really nice is it's thank you That's all I can say thank you. Thank you. That's value for value. I feel good about it And Trisha did send in a handwritten note? I should mention I guess

2:22:50 She says in the morning writing a donation my husband's name and he's got a birthday coming up My husband, we like those from women who tell us how they got to listen to the show because there's a strong belief that women hate us. Yeah and were going to talk about that in a moment by the way. My husband hit me in the mouth a few months ago and I have been passing this forward hopefully I was successful doing this with my daughter's high school history teacher even though I received a highly dramatic teenage eye roll and outburst of from the daughter I guess quote everyone is going to think you're a freak Must you be so embarrassing? What did she do to which I replied absolutely Oh God, that's what my mom used to say everything worthwhile My mom used to say that too. Why else should I be a parent if I can't embarrass you? That's common amongst a lot of moms have you ever said have you ever said that now? I've never said it but Mimi has oh wow It's a monster. You got it like in bed J

2:23:50 Our daughter is so easily embarrassed. Like, we're... I'm at a point where we stop at the crosswalk and I got the window down and I'll say to her she'd be sitting there and i'll say that guy looks like the biggest idiot I've ever seen look at the way he's walking! And she would go oh shh shh he's gonna hear you! He's not going to hear me there's no way he's gonna hear me he's gonna hear you! So then it just... That's funny that's funny yeah well Bookmarking for another time. Yes, she has never listened to your show so don't take it that personally Thanks for all the effort you guys put into this show. It's a really enlightening enjoyable take care and happy anniversary. Thank you

2:24:35 And job karma for her husband would be so great, she says. Why don't you do that for her? Um okay... Almost. Nice note! Yeah or we have special jobs. And we have a lot of karma for just people. Let's do the job karma for everyone who needs it by the way. Jobs, jobs, jobs and jobs let's vote for jobs There you go some job karma anyone who needs it five people left over Joseph Gass in Wilmington Delaware's came out with 66 Jason Morel and Augusta Georgia 60 and then $50 from Peter totes parts unknown shad rich in Seattle and Marcus Kaz Mary I have a note from Marcus actually. I have a note okay, I get to read a note my name is Marcus

2:25:18 Kazmerick and wife Raylene, we've decided that we do not want to be boners anymore. So we decided to become a knight with the $50-a-month donation We also then donated another single 1666 for the total this month's payment To be a sack of sixes for your six years and start my knighthood And for those that don't support the show I say push the button now It's worth it Could use a karma call out for getting cars fixed and a milf call out For the wonderful mother of my 15 year old homeschooled daughter sometimes you just gotta pull a note out of the big pile there. So, a MILF and a Karma. And Karma and gratitude for everyone else who wants to remain anonymous below the $50 level. Our boarding pass, mothership boarding pass 33s our 1111 or 1212's our fives are fours these the straggling twos it's all

2:26:14 Highly highly you want the straggling to this highly appreciated. Yeah, and I'll tell you I'm ready to go I'll do another six. I'll do another 60 years. I'm down on this makes me feel good You haven't really mentioned at all about how you feel about the show. Do love it This is one of the best shows we've ever done It's the only show we've ever done. No, that's true We've never done any other show but I mean just in general isn't actually did promo or something once it isn't isn't this just Well, what's good about it seems to me and I don't want to sound like some sort of a... We want to hear what you have to say. This is real support this is people saying okay

2:26:52 you guys are doing this work and you're coming up with this kind of stuff which really explains a lot to me because there's, it explains a lot to us by the way. Because the two of us don't talk and we find things out from each other. And its just a better way to go I mean people at PBS, the media models all the rest of them are crap if you can produce a product that people like and they will support with their hard earned money win keep it going then you know you're doing the right thing its just You're doing the right thing if somebody says, here keep doing this. And that's what they did today. Yes and we just don't often stop and think I'm... Today actually started last night or yesterday of course our actual anniversary was yesterday. I just can't help but think like what a fantastic thing is taking place here it's like a co-op! It is very much like a co-op. Really is like a co-op

2:27:51 And I count my lucky stars every single day. It's like the best pension plan in the world, as long as I can get up in the morning and do this, and I can keep doing it. Get up in the morning watch C-SPAN for two or three hours... As long as we can keep each other alive! And then you apparently listen to Touré's show No, no I don't. Which is worth a hundred or two hundred bucks from anyone to put up with that guy This is ummm.... A lot of people help. You know? I think most work for me goes into..I'm pretty meticulous with emails

2:28:36 Read every single email that comes in I really I just can't reply to all of them and some of them. Just don't warrant a reply And often have it, I have a clip for you for your email All right stick to it in this play the oh my goodness after mmM. Oh my goodness okay? What is this uh-oh? Somehow that got stuck After all that I'm sorry something weird happening. Oh my goodness Really? That is what i think of when you go on about your email Well no but it's the amount of if you give, If we are willing to feed back and this Is really a lot of what I do You know so we got the What I Do I know I'd love To hear A little bit more About what you do because I don't Think It's very mysterious And if you have No intention Of telling us fine

2:29:31 But I'm always looking at the emails. I'm not a zero inbox guy and I look at my emails, but i'm just telling you how I prepare for the show that people send me stuff and I will go down the hole for them when they send me these. I do! Save that for some other time, my friend...I go down the hole for my listeners. I do and sometimes it's very very rewarding sometimes it's really shite and and sometimes people think that it's okay that we can have an ongoing dialogue on email which is not

2:30:10 and the Noah Jen, the news network contributors. All of that stuff it really works this is I'm afraid to talk too much about it because someone else will figure out how they're gonna hey we should do what those guys are doing yeah well people keep trying to do what these guys are doing but the problem you have a mindset Oddly, the two of us working together have a mindset that accumulatively the two of us as a combination is highly unusual. It just happens to work because we think In a certain way, but I don't want to go on about this. It's me now it's about us We should be for we have too much material here. Yeah absolutely right okay? So thank you again everybody really appreciate it That's our weird that's my weird way of saying Thank You But I comes from the heart I really mean it and we continue the episode 5 6 1 will be on Thursday We continue to need your support to continue what we do vorac org slash nm

2:31:09 It's your birthday, birthday. I know that you're... Always happy to congratulate our producers Jacob Scherer celebrates on the 28th tomorrow as does Gavin Bowd Trisha Peterson we just heard her note it says happy birthday to her husband Alan Peterson on the 3rd of November Rice Kukami Happy Birthday to Chris Hernandez celebrated yesterday and Daniel Torello Daniel's son, Ethan Jorge celebrates tomorrow and will be one year old. A brand new human resource! Happy birthday from the entire staff and management here at The No Agenda Show!

2:31:49 Um, and let me see. We have a controversy with the Knights Okay Well Jennifer and I don't know if Eric sent the note in it. I was just about to look don't mention her last name yet because No i'm not mentioning your last name at all that's why I said Jennifer uh... she had donated she would be a dame today but you don't need it in the past two thousand eleven i think two thousand eleven we keep tabs on everybody so we try to put up to we tried by the way sometimes we try when that great by any means were actually stink we don't have yet we don't have like congressional staff or anything but jerry did notice that in two thousand eleven she wanted to be anonymous now years later she may not want to be anonymous anymore but we have to get her permission

2:32:33 to use her last name even though I blew an anonymous donation earlier today that nobody seemed to have noticed but it's you know these at that's an accident when we don't this not an accident so we know that so she will be knighted David hold on i've got a i'm looking at the message right here and she wants remain anonymous still yep okay then should be just Dame Jennifer in the end okay there you go 600 episodes, I mean six hundred- six years of episodes. We're moving on 600 and uh... My sword is still sharp as ever how about yours? No It's dull. Dull sword. Whoa! Let's try that again

2:33:21 Dennis Steffens and Jennifer, please step forward. Both of you have contributed to the best podcast in the university amount of $1,000 or more and our gratitude could not be any huger And because of that you both joined the elite roundtable so I hereby pronounce the Dane Jennifer and Sir Dennis the mile-high knight For you, we have opium and warm orange juice. Hookers & Blow, three geishas in a bucket of fried chicken. Rent Boys and Chardonnay, hot pants and booze, wenches and beer... Or maybe just some simple mutton and mead! It's all here for you at the round table Thank You And go to noagendanation.com slash rings We still have some in various sizes and you are well deserving of that The only other thing I wanted to mention briefly about now that were on our sixth anniversary is that we've never won an award for this show

2:34:14 Not that we're looking for one per se. It would be nice because awards is how you get out in the public eye, the podcast awards are coming up I would like to be nominated in the comedy category this year if possible. I think-I think we deserve to be in the comedy category Well we're as funny as any of those comedies shows Thank you! I think we really-I think we really deserve it We should be in the comedy category. My goodness! Yeah, exactly. Oh my goodness... What is that from? That's kind of creepy. Just a little bit creepy It's from a clip if you want to hear the clip No it's the Pinterest clip where they're using Pinterest I just thought that I've only made this clip because it was like such an obvious plug for Pinterest

2:34:57 They're putting dogs in one of this Peninsula cities that missing dogs are now being posted on Pinterest and I thought it was like a sounds like a commercial for Pinterest but this woman got a little puppy and she goes oh my goodness Luke cute little puppy That's where that comes from more Silicon Valley cities are using high-tech tools to reunite people with their stolen or lost property And that includes pets NBC Bay Area as Marian Favreau shows us how Oh my goodness. We don't know the name of this sweet dog, but her owner does and the city of Sunnyvale is using Pinterest to try and reunite them. Okay I got you There's something we didn't talk about on Thursday was my fault because where we've been noticing for a while this war on men

2:35:45 Yeah. And I watched the documentary, the Sharon Stone documentary Femme? Oh yeah! Yeah! Yeah! I forgot to... Well I didn't want to watch it that's the key and you did Yes i watched with Miss Mickey Did she stab you? I'm still here. Okay. I'm still breathing That doesn't mean you weren't stabbed No I'm still breathing okay uh and she agrees with me on because I really wanted this to be good I wanted this to be a great documentary Uh, wow. This was like someone's high school Final Cut Pro project It was such a piece of shit

2:36:20 It was so poorly done. I mean it literally John, you know the the Star Wars credits where the weather You know it says once upon a time in a galaxy far far away and the credits are going off into infinity Which is a mockery of early cereals they use that same credit right? Yes throughout yes, I don't believe yes throughout that lame to do this and it would go from section to section, you know, and said that kind like have a question or a statement and that because why would they do that? That was done as a satire. Oh John it was so bad now here's what happened, so they essentially interviewed they say hundreds but maybe the only I don't think probably 20 women you know a lot of them well-known some of them extremely interesting and then they filled up the rest of this thing with b-roll of the craziest things like you know like old public domain footage

2:37:15 of you know slaves and slavery and it was it was so dumb. And it was kind of three parts I'll break it up into three parts, So the first one was some kind of history lesson that at one point in history there was a matriarchal society and women ruled the world apparently. And they show like some statues of women and Cleopatra, and that's proof it's all Cleopatra yeah and then they had Venus the Milo and some other things and then they... Venus? When did she rule the world? I don't know but and then they move on to how women, when men stoke women. Remember we played that little clip from the trailer? That women really become great and then at the end it all kind of revolves back to... Men and women when they work together form a perfect union that is more powerful than anything in the universe

2:38:14 and a little spiritual there. Yeah, new age, new age alert! It was very new-agey there were a couple of women in there who just were fascinating to listen to and nothing I wanted to pull any clips from but it was interesting because a lot of these same women... seriously it was about men and women together and that was the takeaway Men and women when they work together in perfect unison then that's how the universe was meant to be. And it wasn't even about men serving women or women being better but equal, okay? But it was the same... That's a reasonable yes! But then it's the same people who are advocating for same-sex marriages and LGBTQQ and this makes no logical sense is what you're saying doesn't fit into so somewhere It has to give

2:39:05 And actually, you know I've had some arguments over this but if it truly is the female energy and the male energy that create this perfect unison together okay. But you know i think its people not just...I don't see it as male-female because I think you know the two gay people, the gay or lesbian or whatever they can also create look at us John. Here we are! We're bi-curious and whatever you are... No we're not! I am? I'm questioning i'm the Q in questioning. You're the Q. So to me this really failed but uh I've now been keeping my eye open on things for this clearly agenda 21 driven objective

2:39:51 And the BBC propagated the formula with some bogative study, the headline Women Better at Multitasking Than Men. That's interesting because that may or may not be true, I'm assuming it is bull crap but whatever the case is. The latest studies are showing that multitasking is no good to accomplish anything. Right! Like if I am a great multitasker then I get nothing done Then there was this IWMF International Women's Media Foundation and to prove a point

2:40:32 They rigged an ATM. There's a video of this, but there is no sound that makes any sense and it happened I think in Sweden or maybe Norway? Let me see here... It was equal pay for a day. Where was it? Switzerland! And whenever a man came up to the ATM let's say he wanted 100 euros they'd give him 80 euros And then the guy would be standing there for like five minutes, tapping the screen trying to figure out why he only got 80 euros. And then the receipt would pop out and it would say women are regularly paid 20% less than equally skilled men in comparable positions how does it feel? This is equal payday!

2:41:13 and I'm like this is Alan Funt? No, this is a serious the IWMF International Women's Media Foundation is a serious not-for-profit uh yeah no I know but what's the point of this trick well to make men feel bad apparently. Yeah and and and and I'm just seeing more and more of this and and I have Here's another one. They did another test, scarcity of college men leads women to choose briefcase over baby so they did a study at UT in San Antonio and University of Minnesota and they told women on campuses whether it was true or not they said well there's you know there's a scarcity of men in this college

2:42:00 these women during this test excelled and put family and relationship aside, and became career professionals. When they told another group of women that there's an abundance of men they chose family in relationships somehow this proves something apparently sounds like it wasn't done properly well it sounds to me like its kill man is what it says to me the wish you should kill men and then you'll all men right But here's the only thing, and we're just going to keep our eye on this but I would like to say one thing too and then i'll get off my soapbox for a while on this. Women! Particularly this conversation that is happening in our world now about equality in pay equality in the workplace certainly when it comes... A lot of people listen to show or other podcasts about women in technology

2:42:52 you know, that women on boards of companies and it has to be equal. Let me... if you really want to equalize women with men in this modern world Stop complaining about Facebook and Twitter, and even General Electric or boards or whatever it is. And please go after the top three evil male-dominated women discriminating organizations in the world if you start with the top three who discriminate women historically for hundreds of years and on a consistent basis You might change something!

2:43:33 than Twitter and Facebook and GE. And the top three are the Catholic Church, the Jewish Temple, and the Muslim Synagogue... uh Mosque! Mosque. Just go look at the Catholic church? Screw women! The Jewish temple? Oh yes women you're allowed but you have to sit up in the attic. And the Muslims?! Do I really have to tell you how women are treated?? Well there you have it. So Sinead, I think you've nailed it if that is accomplished then you'll be a happy camper this never gonna happen here's what's more likely to happen now the clip I've got here can I just say something John? Yes! I'm giving this information to our listeners because the next time

2:44:18 Someone goes off about women are not treated equally all you have to say is hey You really want to change the world start with those three groups. You change those guys I think we all got that and it's very information, and I will use it too like I was wondering what it was gonna be I thought maybe General Electric But I'm American and I think business. I think stocks. I think insider trading It's all you know I think NSA spying on people industrial I didn't even then a million years thinking were gonna drop three religions on you know what the worst thing is Remember when Sinead O'Connor... What about the Buddhists, by the way? I think there's the same thing. Remember when Sinead O'Connor was on Saturday Night Live and she ripped up the picture of the Pope? Yeah And at that time I was not awakened and didn't quite understand uh..and I thought she was an idiot! I'm like what a dick!! And now I'm like oh my god she was so right She was ahead of her time Way ahead of her time

2:45:13 With the haircut too I might add. Yeah, absolutely So here's a now this is football season that this relates to what you just said because this is the way women are used in college athletics. I didn't was...I kind of was aware of this but I wasn't totally aware of it This is a report and new book came out and I'm gonna do I know you don't like sports or football And this is college football season But you've gotta like this story apparently The colleges are essentially using hookers to get people to join their various football programs that are called hostesses and here is the program. Wait a minute, we've evolved from sex with little boys to hookers?

2:45:53 Well, the Sensible Boys was isolated I think. What an advancement! This is more common, I believe. There's a lot of case studies here and many of the recruiting scandals rise out of... well many of the scandals rise out of recruiting. Absolutely One of the ones you're talking about is called the so-called hostesses and it's a case at the University of Tennessee now That's one that you don't see when you're watching Saturday the day. Absolutely what are hostesses and tell us? Well, hostesses are essentially the first face that a college recruit high school recruit will see coming on campus They're vivacious they're flirtatious They know the program inside and out they have been trained to act as the

2:46:35 as the really the out front face of the program. What Jeff and I document, and on the record through a young woman named Lacey Pearl Erbs at Tennessee was her experience is known as The Closer she was the top hostess there in what happens is there are sexual relationships that go on between the college girls and high school athletes coming in. Not Lacey's case, but there is a tremendous amount of flirtation and intimation that the possibility of relationship exists And that is powerful allure think about it a high school boy, 17 or 18 year old on essentially a weekend date with the 21 or 22 year old girl it's very powerful. It is kind of like a secret weapon that these schools have. And it's under the... well its known by this...the authorities in this case? Oh absolutely! The schools you know the hostess programs are integral parts to the athletic departments in many ways and certainly in the media guides they're treated as these sort of inert but

2:47:36 outgoing aspects of the program when in fact particularly in conferences that are so competitive like the SEC they are crucial to getting these recruits to commit. One of the popular schools apparently is Moorhead State Wow Yes, I got you still baffled by the whole clip. I was thinking to myself you weren't thinking of the Yeah, I'm like wow I missed out on so much I could have been a basketball player. You're tall enough to be in your era, yeah. I could have been at least a center. No no no...center? Pfft! Even back in the day you wouldn't be a center maybe a forward because you're too short So where does this leave us is this it will something change in this outrage? Who wants to change anything? Apparently girls are having a good time

2:48:40 So I got another clip here, I want to get out of the way. Right on! This was an interesting thing this is not reported at all by anybody except one of these crazy news outlets Euronews and it's a very interesting piece of news clowns in Mexico Mexico City has been invaded by peace-loving clowns. Coming from all over Latin America, they were in town for the 18th annual Clown Convention. Though their business may be laughed at, they had a serious message...

2:49:16 They wanted to spread their message of peace in the country which has seen 600,000 deaths due to drug-related violence in the last seven years. We want peace since there is so much violence in Mexico. We know how the situation right now we want a little bit of peace. We spread happiness laughter smiles that's why were clowns Clowns are an integral part of life in Mexico. They can often be seen performing in the streets to earn a living, but it's tough life. The convention will see a series of workshops to help them hone their craft. One clown explains the importance of getting together every year

2:49:56 To train ourselves better so there'll be work. Fortunately, us clowns that are trained are not worried about that We don't suffer a lot like the majority of society we will start dying from hunger when there are no children left Clowns in Mexico I am NOT a fan of clowns You're are you one of those little kids that were scared of clowns? No, no I've just never thought they were funny. Never thought they were interesting. I never got the joke I didn't is that I think the world can be split up into two groups People who are all in and people who are not all in on the clown thing Yeah, there's a lot of people that hate clowns. I don't hate them called clown haters That you hurry where are you on the clown thing? I find cause to be amusing they fall down and they do crazy things again if they usually drive around a little car and a whole bunch of get in it

2:50:58 And they run around and they got funny feet, and they got a crazy makeup jobs are unbelievable. All right one more clip in it I'm gonna let you slide. Oh, will you let me go after one more? Coach this is the story that needs to have more publicity This is a disgusting story coach seats on American Did you feel the squeeze flying coach on a consumer watch tonight Julie Watts explains there's good reason for that Airlines are shrinking their seats. According to the Wall Street Journal, first they slimlined them now big carriers like American Air Canada and Air France are adding an extra seat to each row in coach there will now be 10 seats across shrinking the seat width just 17 inches take a look at how that compares to the 21 inch first-class seat even those look tiny compared your average movie theater seat but

2:51:52 To really put it in perspective, the new long-haul coach seats are significantly smaller than even Amtrak seats and stadium seats. Yeah that's great news! We've booked a flight to Amsterdam in November for a week uh because miss mickey's uh the expo has been extended there so she you know do some press and sell some stuff. And are you gonna have to fly coach? Yeah of course what he means is it going to be one of these idiot i mean we have to put a website together with this seat widths and the leg rooms on every airline, and you should not fly on these airlines! Hey john that's a great idea another fantastic...we can't even get our own show website looking anything decent after six years

2:52:38 We have a one page... Well somebody out there should do it. We have a one-page website and I like it that way! I know people are starting to condemn us for that website No, no ones condemning us They do on the Twitch show? No they're not condemning us Please Okay got it, its one trailer listen this is a good one This we should've played earlier in the show This is a movie trailer For a movie thats such a piece of crap That nobody would take the movie except The National Geographic Channel It's called Blackout. You know that we've played this, right? Is it the same clip? I know we played it but yeah...I don't know if its the same clip Yeah..I think so We are in the midst of what appears to be a colossal and history making black out Where is everybody?! We're stuck! We gotta get some water! The current blackout is the result of a cyber attack

2:53:40 American Blackout, a premiere movie event tomorrow at 9 on the National Geographic Channel. Is that tonight or is that last night? It would be tonight would be when they're showing the movie Oh I get we got to watch this isn't the actual drill taking place this week as well the cyber attack grid blackout drill I don't know if that's true, but there is another drill going on all over the Bay Area called and i have a clip. The Urban Shield Drill where they actually it seems to me scare these kids because you can hear little girls screaming their heads off as though something bad is happening. 7 News reporter Cornell Bernard has the story

2:54:21 Terrified students run from this Castro Valley Elementary School after a gunman fires shots on campus. What you're watching is not real, it's only a drill but the realistic situation being created here of vital exercise for first responders We try to replicate what happens in these situations that we tried purposely try to make it chaotic and we purposely try to make it a mess so that when and if and hopefully not this ever happens Teams will be ready. This training session, one of many across the Bay Area this weekend part of Urban Shield the largest real-life drill for police and fire in the country Yeah I feel real safe. I really do. What I'm telling you those kids were...those screams weren't like say scream

2:55:10 Because drills, you know they have drills. They used to have fire drills in school. But who knows where the- They frighten the kids! Did you see the video? Were the kids screaming or was it just- Yeah there's a bunch of kids running and waving their arms running up the thing with it Come on kids come on come on come on It probably had some clown walking around I got my last two for you. This is the US version of the report and then we'll play the BBC version right after that. Demolition now underway at Sand Hill Elementary School in Connecticut, the site of that horrific shooting in Newtown. Contractors reportedly told to erase every inch of the school. The job's expected take several weeks. The students displaced after the mass shooting last year have been going to school in a neighboring town and a new school was set to open in Newtown

2:55:54 in 2016. Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut where 26 people were killed in a mass shooting last December is to be demolished. A task force voted unanimously to tear down the school and build a new one at its place Every part of the building will be destroyed to make sure that pieces of it are not kept as souvenirs." Oh okay! That makes sense! Souvenirs... Okay, so souvenir hunters we have to stop Really?

2:56:32 Seems unlikely. Yeah, all right I'm following some Bill and Melinda Gates foundation stuff which i'm going to save for Thursday but it's pretty fun okay In general just more eugenics stuff Which is you know yeah? I'm kind of loving all that as well as the whole silk road Bitcoin thing Is very bothersome still how that's being reported so we'll check in on that some news from Africa and yes yeah and some more email. So working on stuff, just working it! Working for you here at your service doing the best we can

2:57:17 How about you? I've got a couple of things. There's still a couple of things on here, i could run one last little shorty Oh okay before we leave! Last one then Yeah the touching the belly clip is kind of like a baffler that is like jeez does this make sense but okay A new law makes it illegal to touch pregnant women's tummies Pennsylvania passed the law this week after a stranger kept touching a woman's belly against her will What?! Stop touching my belly. Wow! Against her will. What? Will they tie her down, I don't know this doesn't make sense Well there is...I have seen this There's an annoying thing where people walk up to pregnant women and say can i touch your belly?! I have seen it Why I've seen it too but what is the point

2:58:05 It's a fascination. Why do you want to touch a pregnant woman? I mean, I've touched the pregnant woman's belly but i don't know that I'm compelled to it's...it's a fascination with life and it's a beautiful thing that's happening and it makes you feel human And you can't do that slave! Stop touching bellies! Now its against the law in Pennsylvania anyway That's it for six years. Yeah, six years we're going on to start in Year 7 on Thursday which will be 561-561 6 plus 1 is seven And so we have that coming up and... We'll be loaded for bear because there doesn't seem to be, by the way this should be the week where there is an incident. That's right six-week cycle starts. Six weeks cycles so that were gonna give it till next show which will be Sunday, I mean the next Sunday show for something this week to happen, we'll see Coming to you from Austin Texas in the morning I'm Adam Curry. And from Northern Silicon Valley

2:59:08 I'm John C. Dvorak, we will talk to you again on Thursday right here on NOAgenda. Shut up slave! Adios mofo! Oh my goodness!