Where's The Beef?

00:01 Hey everybody, it's time once again for the program that comes to you once a week and you never know what it is going to be exactly. Except for the fact that there are going to us two guys talking about something Coming from a sun-drenched Surrey in the United Kingdom In The Curry Manor I'm Adam Curry And I am John C. Dvorak up here in smoky Northern California where we've had 1200 fires and the whole area has just smoked in Wow! You really can...the smoke is noticeable? Well, it's because the wind has been blowing from the north and the south and the north in the south. And it's accumulated. If I look at right now you'd think it was fogged but mostly smoke

00:37 Yeah, it's very noticeable. The first day of it this weather when I woke up and said what does that stink? You could smell it now we've been in the smoke for so long you can't even smell it you're kind of acclimatized to the aroma Is that all the way into the city or is just where you live on the other side of the water No no its all over the place It's very hazy because of the smoke Is this from the Santa Ana winds that fire everything up and all of California burns? Those cause the worst fires, these are the winds that blow from the west. I mean from east to west they blow in the wrong direction and it heats... It's a dry air that heats everything up and its terrible But this is mostly north and south winds The wind goes from the north then it goes from the south then it goes north Its just going back-and forth and washing back-and-forth all the smoke because there are no fires around us

01:26 Right. At all? It's all Southern California, isn't it? No no there is a bunch of them in Northern California they're all over the place. They are all pipes, shafts, they are everywhere! This happens like every single year... Is there anything left to burn down in California?! You know rains things grow mostly weed fires. It's not like... Weed fires hmmm. But anyway so its smoky but no houses have burned down or anything horrible? Oh yeah plenty of houses burned down too hundreds That sucks. So... That's pretty, you're right every year is yeah What's going on in the US of A John? I haven't been there what it's been two months now! I can't-I think July 23rd i'm coming over for two weeks You won't recognize the place Yeah so um... I bet

02:22 So a couple of things, I'm listening to the show last week. Every time I listen to the show occasionally and I notice something that bothers me which is that we do have there is a Skype lag since were going from England to the United States So you get this impression, it's not as bad as the satellite thing on the cable channels. I know exactly what your going to say. I know exactly. Yeah so Bill, what do you think of the situation there in Syria? And then its just like 1 2 3... I didn't hear ya there Jim! What?! and then they talk at the same time. You go, you go.

03:07 Right, well we did a bunch of that last week. But the way it sounds because at the beginning of this show you do most of the talking and I kind of liven up when I finally wake up. And all the punchlines have like an 0.8 second delay before someone laughs? Exactly right! The way it sounds is as follows... If you were listening to this and didn't know there was a Skype lag It's like you say something like, well what do you think of that John? And then there'll be this long delay as if I'm actually even thinking. You actually give a shit what i'm saying! I know it's fantastic. Right there is almost this moment where your listening and sounds as though your saying something and because of these long pauses am thinking to myself Is this guy a total idiot?!

03:58 No, no. First of all I'm sure you think that from time to time but in general i think those pregnant pauses as I would call them...I think they kind of make it interesting because it actually sounds like your thinking and processing boy Adam is once again asked a fine interesting question how shall I respond? But when there's a joke yeah of course that works both ways now actually Because the recording is on my end, if you crack a joke my response is instantaneous. But of course all the good jokes have that delayed laughter from you like that one. Are we listening to a different show where we have good jokes? No...you know what I mean

04:37 but what i do it for the noise you get an isdn set up and i'm not going to help because we're still so far away john has nothing to do with that delay has nothing to do uh... well actually has a little bit to do with the fact that units it's not a director full-time circuit it's uh... you know packets are flying around the internet uh... can skype has to buffer all that shit so he gets never gonna get any less that delay on this type of technology but on the um... I don't think distance has that much to do with it. When you come to ISDN, it's just IP packets but its a direct search... Well once you get one we'll try it out dude! We got a couple emails from people who say this is not as clean necessarily as you like to make it out to be. From London to here is long haul Let's give it a shot It can't be worse than Skype No, maybe true

05:31 Yeah, well the quality would probably be better. I agree yeah okay we'll do that let me put it hold on let me write this down Yeah and put it on top of the pile of other notes of things to do get Skype No get ISDN not skype oh I'm sorry see I made a mistake already Just get a Talos thing or whatever make sure you have the AAC codex loaded they all have the same thing Yeah, well... I got ISDN in the condo now. I haven't tried it out yet but i do have it In the Congo? The condo! The Curry Condo Over San Francisco? Yeah, I had to put in So what's going on over there and you EU? Oh lots going on As far as I can tell

06:27 From our news coverage, nothing's going on. Okay you guys hear this little thing called the big 90th Nelson Mandela birthday bash in Hyde Park? Nope! Unbelievable yeah Nelson Mandela celebrated his 90th birthday In fact half of the US show business is here let's see Will Smith was here Jay-Z was here I mean it did huge huge party and of course it's royally messed up all traffic for most of the week in into the city and coming in and out of the city

07:02 So that was pretty big and of course what... So is Will Smith like, I'm sorry. Is Will Smith some sort of old running buddy with Nelson Mandela? What's the connection there? Just following him in a book blog is that the only thing? No didn't he play Nelson Mandela in a movie or wasn't he in a Nelson Mandela yeah I thought it wasn't even I know we played Muhammad Ali Okay well that would explain it Yeah but you know and also um I don't know Will Smith's uh social thinking kind of guy You know and ah And he's a great performer Yeah. Oh, did he perform? Yeah yeah he performed on stage and uh so Jay-Z is a... Nelson... well he's a rapper Who? Nelson Mandela

07:43 No, Will Smith. So is Nelson Mandela into rap? Really? You know, Nelson Mandela's in everything you know it's all kinds of musical acts yeah I don't think the guy doesn't give a shit he's 90 and when you're ninety years and oh look at these young people doing anything on stage your happy I mean come on like whatever the fuck that guy is doing but Will Smith this kind of an ambassador you know he's very positive very energetic type of guy I met him in 1988 we did a gig together God, I was in Pennsylvania. It was like a Nintendo launch or something of Super Mario Brothers or whatever and he was still doing Parents Just Don't Understand with DJ Jazzy Jeff which of course were his roots. And even then it's like really nice guy...nice guy

08:31 And Jay-Z, so they were all on Jonathan Ross last night. Jay Z is headlining this is kind of controversial Jay Z is headlining Glastonbury this year which traditionally is more like a kinda like a rock concert and it didn't sell out this year and the critics are saying that's because Jay Z was chosen as the headliner very controversial issue you understand So let me tell you the United States, uh... the way we handled this. What? Nelson Mandela? Yeah I'm looking at the news rundown here it is top of the thing Top of the News which was actually really only run in India The US approves a bill that removes Nelson Mandela from the terrorist list From the no-fly list yeah i read that, I read that right well you know what so that That was a birthday gift Well there's alot of things going on here

09:21 Actually, I wanted to ask you about... Let me bring up one more story though. Okay. Because this will interest you This is the way they handled the headline in Fox News Singer Amy Winehouse takes the stage at Nelson Mandela birthday show Thank God we got an Amy Winehouse reference in! Damn it now and now its newsworthy That's gotta be top of the headlines everybody Cocksuckers Anyway, so I've been trained now partially due to my own investigation and work and experience but certainly in the past 36 episodes of no agenda. I've been trained to be very suspicious of big headlines And this Zimbabwe thing really has all my bullshit meters going off have you been following this?

10:10 Yeah, I think that has been covered over here to some extent mostly by the News hour type shows are the ones that get into an in-depth they read the regular news of course is just you know That this guy doesn't want to leave office and they you know They beat the crap out of his opponents supporters And the opponent took off and said I'm not I'm out of here. And you know we got it I think we've got the gist of it Well, because what is the gist of it? That's the part that is the bullshit. I mean this guy has been around for decades, this Mugabe and whenever I hear, oh it's an undemocratic process and we have to go in peacekeeping troops have to keep watch over the democratic process and the voting has to be democratic. Whenever i hear that I'm like okay what does this country have that we need? And I know its not oil but what I have discovered is that 70 or 80 percent of all British vegetables come from Zimbabwe. All the good it's done you.

11:12 Another big thing, but of course the economy over there is collapsed. You know a loaf of bread cost 45 billion Zimbabwe dollars no kidding billions now Yeah, you know I've got a call out. Unfortunately haven't been able to score it It's really irking me to no end and I got one more source I think for this before they before they go away But right now they're paying for everything in Zimbabwe in bricks of money yeah Farther further along than they did in the hyperinflation These various countries have had hyperinflation Germany of course in the 30s was famous

11:52 But more recently, of course Brazil 20 years ago was hyperinflation. I have a couple 500 thousand Cruzeiro bills. So like 500 thousand the equivalent dollars, $500,000 is the bill and it was worth like...I think when I went to Brazil when that bill was around and I think the bill was worth a dollar When I got it, and two days later it was worth 10 cents or something like that. So Zimbabwe they've go these... Go ahead Well I'm just gonna say in Zimbabwe because they're not printing these high notes People buy with these bricks of money

12:33 So you have a brick of money, it's like piles and the brick is an equivalent of a couple bucks. And I've been trying to get somebody to get me some of these bricks of money especially the ones that have Mugabe's picture on them because personally i think they're collectible I think you're probably right. There were like four stories in the Financial Times yesterday which i read on the train into the city that I actually circled, let me just find one about Zimbabwe because they said it was a pretty funny line is that it was more expensive because they've limited what you can take out of the ATM machine and just because there's not enough paper can come out so it was actually more expensive

13:15 to drive to the ATM for the amount of money you could withdraw that people are no longer going to the ATM. They're giving up on money in general, which is sad but it was dominating the headlines so much John and there's all kinds of other stuff going on for three days straight, non-stop all over Europe at least what I could see because I did skim around a bit. And it was like this has to be for some other reason why is this the most important story? It's like no one gives a shit about Zimbabwe for years and then all of sudden oh surprise surprise you know one of these guys who have never heard of who supposedly his opponent in the elections, the undemocratic elections

13:58 You know, and then you kind of look into the history. It was known as Rhodesia before it was Zimbabwe and of course... Basically the white man came into the country fucked everything up regardless no matter what you say that's the root of the problem but I was just interested like why are we so interested in this country? What is the deal now Add to that Nelson Mandela of course, you know and there's like millions of Zimbabweans are now fleeing Zimbabwe into South Africa. I don't know man it's...I really don't understand Africa It's just a lot going on Have you ever been there? Dude! I lived in Uganda for three years what are you talking about Three years in Uganda?! Yeah, I was very young but yeah we lived in Uganda three years before Idi Amin came in at the time Abote was president

14:46 Who by the way was just as corrupt. Have you been back? Do you go there, do you visit? Do you have old reminiscences or what do you do? Yes I have reminiscences and my dad was a super 8mm nut so we have just tens and tens of... Oh now were talking stuff that should be posted! Yeah your absolutely right I'm gonna go talk to Bob. That's my mom's second husband, and I know he has all that stuff and I should get that transferred. Of course it has no sound its only a voiceover. You can do a voice over. I really should do that because there is tons of wildlife footage and family stuff. No you gotta do that before they...you know that stuff deteriorates It does deteriorate. You know what? Ill make that a point. That will be project for sometime between now and the end of the year ill get that done

15:36 So, we do have lots of... We have an ivory elephant tusk which has been completely carved. Back when it was still legal obviously we had zebra skin rugs, lion skin rugs, a lot of stuff, spears some paintings, we have a lot of African artifacts that my parents collected in those three years. Oh well it sounds like...that sounds good I still don't understand the country though Well let's...it's a crazy place My sister was born there on January 1st And it was a nightmare in the hospital. I'll bet! There's a lot of people that...I was talking to somebody the other day who is going to Africa and uh, like, I warned them that one of the problems that i've noticed with people who go to Africa alot is they get addicted to going there. Uh, there some addictive mechanism about africa. I always found Africa to be you know if you say well just imagine

16:40 different things, largely savannas at least most of what I saw as opposed to the jungles that we imagined to be there like which are mostly the kind of jungles that we visualized typically Amazonian in South America and the place is teeming with light. Like if you look on the ground anywhere it's just this bugs You know, I mean it's just there is so much wildlife. There are bugs and there are birds that you've never imagined before and it's like... It's kind of distressing to me. I'm not a big fan of Africa. I don't have any desire to go back." I think what people feel is its real Mother Earth, the real pole maybe because that of course where I think people really came from

17:27 Maybe that's it, maybe it is just a human DNA connection. But indeed you are such a cracker ass white man I can understand why you have no affiliation with that. Exactly! You know... Eastern European stock uh... we do you know a re-invaded by the mongols can think so it's like i have no real love with the definitively you have no reason to have no room i had to say i mean as part of this is nice place in the back and but there are people at this school that because effective friend of mine was up the street who said used to be a journalist for over the wall street journal greg zachary is part of that spangler club he uh... he's an african now as far as i know i don't know if it isn't keen yeah i don't know what they'll even doing their

18:10 Yeah, well you know Africa is developing as well. I was talking to a guy from Nokia yesterday he says that in Africa and also India honestly he did mention two countries but there's 60 million new cell phone subscribers coming online every month What? Yeah. No, that's not possible He said in India if you take India and Africa combined That's what he said! He said all of a sudden there is... Look these networks are just opening up It's not a gradual thing it's like an open up You know, you open up a whole new area And you can sell a million of these candy bar phones Absolutely is possible

18:50 You said 60 million a month. Yes, at the current right now that doesn't mean it's gonna be 60 million in three months time because everyone will be saturated right? That new markets but there are new markets are exploding How do they even make that many phones at such a rate? They make 1 million phones...they sell one million phones a day We should be in the phone business. No, you shouldn't because this is very interesting they have a per unit price and how much they make per unit and I think Nokia is one of the smartest companies around They understand very clearly what Apple of course is telling everyone it's about services so if you can get the right services that people want

19:37 And you can put those on your phone. Many people for the first time in their life are experiencing the internet, but it's not on a computer it is on a handheld device So no no no... But the margins there are almost nothing I'm sure This is just plastic John You get throwaways We're not talking like smartphones or anything in India. The gross is just a phone and maybe have a little mobile browser on there and some text messaging, but it doesn't have big smartphone capabilities. So when was the last time you were in Africa? 1967

20:21 I gotta go back. But you know Russia... If you don't have the addiction, maybe shouldn't go back maybe you'll pick it up but i'm telling there's these people that are just basically going to Africa constantly and like they can get out away from it is love the place yeah I kinda like Yeah, I don't know. There's no pull let's put it that way and nor do I have any kind of pool like I want to go to Asia desperately I Do want to go? You should you should at least want to check out Asia you've been to different places in Asia But is it yeah, I don't have that wanderlust too. I did so many

21:00 documentaries for television. We talked about this already, you were burned out on Asia I just burned out way out there in Australia. I think Australia would love to go back to. I'd really love to go back to Australia uh... did documentary there and uh... the caribbean and i've been back to jamaica fifteen twenty times since that time entry so you like to make it then high-fucking love jamaica all i could live on our way but that we are going never mind that this don't even go there because they know what i want another no it's not just about that now it's not just about that and get that whole vibe ivory of always had something with reggae music um... it's everything is the food it's uh... yeah i know a lot of people their near the

21:41 And by the way, this is in the north. I'm not talking Kingston But you know on the northern side so obviously very calm and touristy and laid-back kind of life but yeah I dig it man totally totally dig it Why don't you get a place there? We've considered at many times, but you should get a place there You could probably rent out to people Well, there's a setup there Okay, it's interesting you bring that up. And it is called Round Hill and Round Hill was set up in the 50s In fact a lot of the architecture... It basically there are round cove with hill and I think maybe 35 or 40 villas are built into this hill at Round Hill So its a closed community

22:32 But the deal is, you buy your house. You model it. You put all your own stuff in it. Every single house... Everyone's different but every house does have a cook, a housekeeper and gardener and there are locals who come in and work but they're assigned to specific houses so the central management But then even if you buy the house, no matter what you do with it but everyone has to bring up a certain standards. The deal is that it has to be rented out X number of weeks per year and so of course you can choose when your going to be there. It's one those typical type deals What's interesting is the people who have houses there by far the largest who've been there for 10-15 years is Ralph Lauren

23:13 But Bob Pittman also has a place, and I've rented his house several times. He has a beautiful house there. So it's all people who basically... anyone who has a jet who can take three-and-a-half hours to fly down from New York or hop across from from Florida. They all have these houses there and it's spectacular, it's absolutely beautiful and many times I've considered buying one of those but you know I never really take advantage of it just be stupid Well let's go with the Pittman house what is the cost to rent? Well of course that depends on the season obviously if you want to go now you can get a pretty cheap but you'll die of heat exhaustion

24:00 But in peak season for Jamaica, I think at the time...I'm sure it's more now. Last time i went was years ago. I think it was $10,000 a week $10,000 a week to rent the guy's house. So that's $50,000 a month or so? 40,000? Yeah if you wanted to rent it for the whole period yeah And that seems high to me because you can get a place in Spain which is probably pretty spectacular for a lot less than that Or Portugal where most of you Brits go But don't forget you get your breakfast and lunch and dinner, you can decide what to do but it's all cooked for you. It is a great personalized service. And so the house will sleep like six people if you do the math it probably not that expensive within context of me I don't want to sound stupid

25:07 Yeah, no. No it's probably if you did the math you're right if you loaded up with a bunch of frat boys or something like that you could probably split the bill and split gas money It's not a frat boy type place John That's not exactly what its like I just want to get a feeling for it But it is very Casablanca type vibe You know 50s? Like white picket fence type wood stuff and blue and white stripes. So you rent, let's say you got the Bob Pittman house for a week what are you going to do? What are you gonna do? I mean it is like... You're not in Paris

25:49 No, but each house has its own swimming pool or most of them do. So you got your own set up it's open living basically so you're overlooking the ocean and you've got a swimming pool there and anything you need And what I usually winded doing is first hammering out my head for three days straight just trying to calm down relax and they all hook up with my friends and there's restaurants in the uh... actually like in the woods so not it's not a restaurant that says restaurant but its where the locals go when they go out to eat, so I'll hang out with them You make it sound do you have to crap in the woods too? I mean, how does that work? No, they do have toilets But not plumbing just saying everything. Do you make it sound as though it's like what's primitive? The problem is I'm gonna tell you what no here's the problem with With you and everybody else out there including all of those listeners Okay me and every nobody brings a camera

26:51 Nobody brings a camera, nobody takes pictures. You know except the Japanese so I give them credit for this It's a show it's a blog and you've got to blog you know you have a blog it's called curry.com for anyone who wants to find it John John John hold on hold on calm down You have no photos in there Calm down! Your wife looks like nobody knows Are you? Dude do you even ever look at my fucking blog Yeah, I do. Dude! There's a little thing there called search You want pictures of my wife? There are pictures of my wife. One picture of Jamaica and this picture is Jamaican. You want pictures me in Iraq? This picture is me in Iraq Are you kidding me?! I always take pictures of stuff like that

27:32 I'm going there now. But i didn't even know you then and by the way it may be on some other blog somewhere that died, you know? And I don't know if it was all imported but... Now your making excuses! No I have but.. Here's what I get first picture is a picture of you holding a rocket That's uh thats the artwork for daily source code I'm such a rebel. There's a few tech fives, there is a picture of Britney Spears another tech five, there is a YouTube video of George Bush and there is a picture of a Tupac. Excuse me John! I've been kind of busy lately you know?

28:08 And a coke bottle, I'm letting you reiterate that one. Okay let me do a search hang on. Why are you doing this? Just because i don't have 30 ass licking lackeys who post for me all day long doesn't mean that you know I don't have my shit together Patricia I'm typing in see what she looks like and there's pictures nothing I got nothing here yeah I've got no pictures No you gotta to previous posts because I mentioned Patricia a lot This is all shows. Why don't you go to my Flickr page, man? Go to my Flickr page and look at... I got tons of pictures!

28:46 I'm just saying. In fact, they were so good my pictures that a gossip magazine stole them and reprinted them and i had to sue them over it! I mean come on how can you... if you're even remotely interested in that story which of course was a huge coup for the Creative Commons copyright which you know you pretend like you actually know anything about that case then you would have gone look at the fucking pictures the whole case was about Might have you don't know that here. You're accusing me yeah, hell Yeah, see what's so what's your name on flickr Adam C? 1999 that's well no wonder You know your name is Adam and curry it would carry em I'm looking at Adam C 1999 there isn't anything available to you tagged with okay didn't look at tags the flicker sucks

29:41 Let's see. It has great pictures on my Flickr, I'm always uploading stuff. You know it can't...it's ridiculous you can find crap on Flickr. Adam C 1999 and there is all kinds of beautiful pictures. Well well well I am not getting there just hitting the tags thing. Oh maybe it's too advanced for you John hold on let me Skype to ya. Here we go! I found something no I didn't. No I just sent you a link in Skype Please click on that and then take a look. I did this okay, let me There's a whole go look at that it says right on the right hand side I have a beautiful what they call these galleries or whatever collection of my wife picture of your daughter's car Look to the right look to the right picture of a cat look to the right Right next to the cat picture you see that beautiful woman there peepee glossy it says

30:42 The picture next to the cat that I'm seeing is a picture of your backyard and it was snowed in. No, no on the right hand side there's collections little icons Yeah, I see these. You got Christina's Twingo wet iPhone resurrection which is I think was five years ago Keep going AC gets shaken down and there's Dina no no horn Oh it's a private picture That's why you can't see that it's not porn. It says cuz Christina prom you schmuck oh I'm sorry Christina's a prom look I'm not seeing anything worth it. Thanksgiving, here's a picture from 2006. Yeah you're keeping up. John those are collections! Carolyn Timpson and me. 1986 Stop it! Look just click go down the bottom and click... You know what? I don't give a shit you know what? I got plenty of pictures. I got more than enough pictures Alright if you say so I'll take your word for obviously have not run into them but it seems to be

31:53 There's a lot of stuff that you could use because I've never seen you even with the camera. I use my phone, my cell phone. It doesn't have... it explains it but if you go through this all kinds of great pictures This is from our vacation and the family reunion There's all kinds of stuff. Dr. Cockney here I see and there is my... just go to the second page man, I got 51 pages of pictures 923 items

32:35 Well, the Isle of Wight. Now here you have a picture that would interest me... Now this is the kind of picture I'd take. The crab and lobster in sign. Yeah that's uh.. where are you seeing that? It's under the Isle of Wight set. Oh let me see oh okay so that was when Patricia and I went to the Isle of Wight And you go there mainly to eat at the Crab & Lobster Pub which is overlooking the ocean Oh, and there's a picture of Patricia with her sunglasses on. Yeah she is gorgeous. And let me read this sign because it is kind of funny. Crab and lobster in... See that the kinda stuff I like to blog. You should be blogging this. Or you should have. Crab and lobster in glasses, crockery and cutlery etc must not be taken to the beach or away from this area It just a funny ridiculous... It's a good sign isn't it? Stealing the cutlery!

33:35 But a lot of... so, but Flickr has a nice thing where you upload your pictures and if you want to blog it there's just one click. So a lot of these have been blogged because that connection works in fact thats the same thing we've been talking about using. Flickr connects to any weblog. Well see here is the problem I have that irks me So, you know Google bought... One of the things I did with Flickr. I'm not a big fan of... Yahoo bought Flickr not Google, Yahoo! Yahoo, I am sorry but I am not a fan of all these public photo albums even though I have given you crap for having one. I actually don't like doing them because it's like who needs to know this stuff anyway? You know let us take a picture that sign but I don't want bunch of family pictures everywhere

34:21 But I did do a public photo album of all the employees. I take a lot of pictures with a camera, and when I was at ZDTV, I took pictures of the staff and everybody who's ever worked there, people who came through, people that were on shows. So it took like hundreds of pictures at ZDTV, and I was in the process of posting them all because you know for people who want to reminisce or whatever And then Yahoo buys them and I can't use the uploader and I can't, I can't do the password doesn't work. So these basically this whole album is stuck kind of frozen in limbo because of Yahoo taking over the operation so I just gave up on it. I like it you know its worked okay. I have Flickr Pro which gives you a whole bunch

35:09 A whole bunch of benefits. Actually, you know what was funny? I was flying...I was at the airport on Monday and I had some family business to take care off in Holland, Amsterdam And so we're at the airport and this guy Hugh who has a imaging company, airborne imaging company he does imaging of power lines and I've been, you know he's been a listener for long time of the Daily Source Code. He listens to No Agenda and he came out and said, You know i was thinking about what you guys were saying And he says so there is new chipsets, the new GPS chipsets are really important for... For what we're talking about having a camera with a GPS in it and geo tags etc

35:52 And he showed me this setup, you know that has these new chips so the minute you turn it on It immediately fixes or almost within like three seconds. It has a signal which is what these new chip sets are going to be able to do But he also had another sensor in it So not only did you know the exact position where the picture was taken but also You had the compass direction The camera was pointed how cool is that? That's totally cool. I mean, I was like wow! Of course we're a couple of obvious nerds... Yeah but he has an azimuth so he knows the altitude right? He knows the compass direction, he knows the exact location that's hot shit now think about what cool stuff you could build with that man, that's awesome Well one other thing you can do this was presented by I think Microsoft guy originally or maybe somebody from MIT No this is a guy who makes it himself John

36:47 This is a home-built... No, no. I'm saying that technology's obviously something that should be in all cameras right? And what it leads to is an underlying project that's being worked on kind of in the background where you just load if you have enough of this information you can just load every photo you can get your hands on that has GPS data and recreate the world in virtual space So I could bring up a map of Paris and then say what is it like on this block? Kind of like the way that Google guys have been doing by driving around. Yeah, and pretty much have Limitless photographs well clearly that's the way forward I mean the Google Street mapping stuff is you know It doesn't scale You know you've got to get their community doing this That's the only way to really make it happen right doesn't scale unless they buy more Volkswagens

37:41 It was funny, you called me and I was just driving back from...I picked up the newspaper. And I rounded the corner onto our road and I see this Google sign! And it said like A3 Fencing Google US and had the Google logo I'm like, man maybe it's the... and i actually stopped the car to get out and take a picture believe it or not John. Well hold on a second so again I parked the car I take my cell phone I go over to take a picture and like I'm sure this is like some kind of marker for Google Street Maps right they're finally hitting my town and this is interesting So I go over to take the picture then I realize its actually uh..an ad for the fencing company

38:23 and it's not google us its a three fencing googolos but it took me a my my mind went immediately to how this is secret market had the good didn't say google isn't you know it said they said google but was that google logo and in the words google spelled out so i think that must be some kind of marker but it was just an ad if you want to get a three-fence ing go ahead googolas Seems like a some sort of violation of copyright. Oh, I'm sure it is but who gives a shit well so anyway these Visitor friend of mine because I went down to the Livermore the other day and to look at some software he's developing and He gave me his address or punched it into the Google Maps

39:12 And they had, and this is in the middle of nowhere. They had not only... he didn't even know this but they had not only that street in that you know they have a view Google View or whatever it's called of actual photos of the houses But I could find his house in high def And you know, there was this place and I went and saw it. That was it! It's kind of creepy isn't it? It is useful and creepy at the same time because I have a total mixed feeling about it. It's handy...I mean its cool because then you don't have to drive around so much looking for something. Now I can see where it could be very useful

39:51 But it's like, do we really need all of our houses? It's almost as though...it's like for the invasion of the Nazis or something. I mean, why do we need to...? Like I said, how do you feel about it because I can't come to any kind of a conclusion. I understand what you mean because Patricia has the same feeling because I've introduced her to Google Earth and she is looking at houses right now in the city. And so I said, well you just get the zip code or postcode as they call it here and you just entered in a boop you zoom right in and then you can zoom in zoom out and she's really really enjoying that process but whenever I show her our house she's like well thats kinda creepy. So yeah I mean ya know you get the good with the bad now personally

40:39 As an aviator, it's awesome because the whole idea of flying to an airfield you've never been before and yet you can see a picture. Most airfields in airports have pictures now, aerial pictures that website so you can get some information But when you can actually fly and approach with Google Earth, it's like okay here is where I'm going to be coming in from. Oh okay it looks like that. Boy! It gives you such a self-assured feeling. You really understand the layout. You have the situational awareness from much richer data set than what you typically have an aviation which is maps and charts and symbols and warnings

41:18 So in that way, I think it's good. You know? Look the government can see what i'm buying with my credit card you know what the fuck difference do I care if someone could see my house It's all over there is no privacy its a joke Well it IS a joke but we need to fight for our rights to privacy anyway Well that thing about the credit cards... That bugged me! No one has been talking about that Not even on blogs where is that?! Where is the outrage over that Oh, but the fact that they could tell everything and you know... Yeah. The credit card companies have to report all transactions to the government. They say they're not abusing it, but of course yeah I know But you're right about all the info That's weird we blogged in as nobody oh well It's just terrible Its gotten to a point where there just hounding us to such an extreme Taking away our rights Putting cameras everywhere We are giving up! We are giving up John! We are giving up! I think its pathetic Someone sent me a quote

42:23 I gotta play this for you now because i thought it was actually really fucking brilliant and even though, we played on the daily source code listen to this hold on a second let me see if i can play this hi adam this is justin from back in the bus podcast dot com and You've been talking about lately why people won't stand up for their liberties Being stripped away. Well i figured out and it's like this Where's this okay? All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary, except longer working hours or shorter rations. And even when they became discontented as they sometimes did their discontent led nowhere because being without general ideas

43:20 They can only focus on petty, specific grievances. That's from George Orwell 1984 Alright man they work for us! So... That brings Britney Spears back into the picture What do you mean? Yeah exactly It is exactly right Britney Spears You know Distractions And Britney Spears is one of the- and Amy Winehouse And Amy Winehouse, yeah. Well who's you know on a death spiral Oh hold on I was uh we did that um We named last week's episode would we name it Yahoo Microsoft equals Britney Spears? Yeah and we did that to see if it would jack up the numbers let me just check

44:12 I haven't actually looked. I haven't looked in a while. I had a couple people write in about that saying what is that supposed to mean? Even though you anyway, it's I'm thinking did you listen to the show? Yeah Did you listen to the frickin show get the hell out of here? Listen to this show we explain great detail what it means geez Louise uh... fuck i don't have my password and you sent me a use of your send me a picture of your airplane which actually blocked by the way unless you want to do it's okay if it's a photoshop job obviously my wife isn't actually on the nose at all see i was like that was not aware of them because i think that the joke was no wonder she won't fly with him but well that's that's why someone made that photoshopped picture for me as always agree it's a great photo shop just getting good now it's out here while i mean

45:05 Even being told it's Photoshop, I'm not...I'd have to really have a bigger blow up to see that it was fake. You maybe should have somebody pay except for the type font being used there. I don't like that particular font. It's uh..I know what is too and its just old fashioned You should really go really old-fashioned and do some font from like World War two. Yeah, but for people out there when we're talking about I'll blow have this blog It's a picture of Adams little airplane. I'll have my people blog this for me yes John Bobo do it. It's a picture of, Bobo can put it on the cage match...it's a picture of Adams airplane but he has like one of those like World War II painting of a pin up Varga girl on the front and that like you know the bombers used to have with the name The Lady Patricia stenciled next to it and looks real. Yes good one I've seen my new plane John I cant wait comes out in 2010

46:08 What is it? Are you gonna buy a Dreamliner? No. and no it's uh... serious there um... that has been a lot of talk about this may be there were some uh... like sneak shots finally is about to make its first test flight in the actual model and you know the the configuration that they're going to sell in uh... it's called at the jet is what they call it and it's a set it up but really it's a five-person but it can meet with as two jump seats are committed seven person personal jet with one jet engine uh... it has uh... Approach speeds similar to that of propeller airplanes, so you could land it on smaller airstrips. It does about 300 knots but the price tag is what's amazing! It's going to be like 1.3 million dollars Of course in 2010 that may mean nothing...it might have been 10 million dollars But at todays prices $1.3 million which for what your getting airplane wise is just a lot of plane

47:07 What's, what does a jet normally cost? Well you can't it doesn't work that way but what do you want? You know, which model? The 25, the 35, the 45, the 55. Do you want to be talking about... Well just give me a price range is what I'm looking for. How many people do you want to move and how far? That's it doesn't work by that's the only way it works. How far do you want to go and how many... No but there has got to be a price for the cheap one What's the cheapest jet you can buy? Well okay let's look at- It only goes five miles! I mean I don't care about that But that's what its' about John You can't give me a price. You're like one of those sales guys who go into a store... So what do I have to pay for this car? Well, you know if you have to ask, you can't afford it. Okay, I'll give you a range okay i'll give your range so the Cessna, the Cirrus Jet will be 1.3 million dollars its range will be about 1000 nautical miles and let's just say that you could take five adults sitting down not walking around the cabin okay now on the other end of the spectrum you have Ray Lane who has a G5

48:10 which you can carry, I think it's configured for 14 people with a bedroom and shower and stand up cabin. You know that's like $57 million dollars so if you're looking at anything comparable to this Cirrus jet would be more in the three million dollar range So it really is an incredible price reduction Okay, all right. Even if you were to get a turboprop King Air You know it's gonna be two million dollars for A very comparable airplane But this one will actually fly cheaper because it only has not only does not have a prop It only has one engine its it's a new power plant. Yeah This isn't this is new this thing is really tiny

48:49 It's phenomenal. And what I like about it is they modeled the airplane after a car, after the conveniences of a minivan which i've been saying for years The flying car will not happen its called an airplane You know, it's a... the image of a flying minivan is just be... I'm gonna have to do a Photoshop job myself. Try to spell this Cirrus thing. Go to CirrusDesign.com. You know you're in a sour mood today by the way? No not at all! Not at all. I'm just fighting back and is not going to take any shit from you

49:29 No, I think so. I think you're accusing me. Cirrus plus Garmin equals revolution? Were they hooked up with Garmin? So is this the SR22 you're going to get? Not the SR22 go to the Jet. The SR22 was a very successful model they made. Oh it's called THE JET! Look at it man, look how pretty that thing is. It's got a V-tail and the jet engine sits on top of this really pretty thing If you go deeper into the site and it talks about the history because they've been developing this thing for like 15 years You'll see how they came up with the V-tail

50:06 solution and why. It's a lot of thinking, it really is a fascinating story and that whole company has just been amazing these Cirrus airplanes although I won't fly that one because i don't like their fiberglass plastic ass wing this feels dinky to me uh... I'm definitely more sheet metal rivet type guy which brings up the interesting story which Curiously, I was thinking about earlier because I'm holding a piece of plastic that fell off of something I have around here in the messy office which needs cleaning by the way. That's some sort of composite thing and I was thinking about how with tennis rackets they went from wood rackets

50:49 to aluminum rackets, to graphite composite rackets which essentially now they're all high-tech rackets and you know which is the same progression that we've had with airplanes. Which is wooden planes to aluminum to now the Dreamliner from Boeing which is what I thought you were buying uh... is there's no aluminum on it. Yeah, it's all composite I don't know. Do you trust that? Does it scare you? No, no because when i was flying helicopters helicopter blades used to be made of metal in fact at one point they were made of wood they're all composite now. That shit is strong man the fiberglass stuff that Cirrus is doing...I don't know about that Because if you shake one wing tip and the other really rattles up and down It just doesn't feel right And by the way any aircraft manufacturer who

51:38 includes a parachute with their aircraft, it just doesn't sound right. Is this the planes that have the parachute that the whole plane gets parachuted down? Yeah its called... You're familiar with that right? Yeah thats what this is its called the ballistic recovery system Right, so in other words the plane craps out Yeah In the middle of nowhere and you just pop the chute and the entire plane is parachuted safely to earth. Almost every new plane You don't like that? Don't you think that... Now well let me explain Is the jet gonna have that? Yes

52:15 So, this is obviously a new development and now all these aircraft are being outfitted with it. But from an aviation standpoint first of all its heavy adds alot of weight there's some downsides to having the system on board But what is happening, and this is why aviators think it's kind of lame... ...is that its not because the plane is crapping out. It's because people are pushing themselves into situations they really shouldn't put themselves in... ...because they're just not experienced enough. Because they think they have this ultimate backstop of a parachute. This by the way is the same aircraft that Corey Little killed himself in when he crashed on the east side of the New York River

53:00 That was an SR-20, I think it was either a 20 or 22. But that's really what is happening and if you look at the statistics of people who pull the parachute on these planes It's because they got into this situation they never should have been in And they are pushing themselves too far At certain point, look at Corey Little The parachute isn't going to help ya You know? That accident was terrible, terrible underestimation Bad bad judgment call Yeah, we talked about that before. I can't remember the details. Uh... well i'd be happy to tell you but yeah if you want to go through it. So looking at the interior of this jet-I'll go for a ride on this thing! How hot is that huh? Oh it's gorgeous! One point and see how little that engine is? It's a very tiny engine

53:49 Yeah, I know it looks like a jet fighter. This thing looks very futuristic. It's a very pretty plane and for the price i'm sure is a deal Oh, it's an incredible deal because i've been looking you know i've been thinking you know in A year and a half or so maybe uh You know maybe have a little more time who knows? Uh definitely want to do some more uh, you know flying at altitude So you want to have something that's pressurized particularly my wife, altitudes don't work well with her and circulation for her heart. And so I've been looking at the Piper Meridian and that's a single engine turboprop which is smaller than this much smaller in fact that's 1.8 million dollars you know? You look at King Air 1.9 and this is a revolution! The pricing it just an outrageously low price

54:39 Well, you know the thing that's I... every once in a while I consider this is with small general aviation planes these little one-engine prop jobs. You know the jets have long since Then, I mean for commercial aviation nobody uses prop planes anymore except you know there may be some old clunkers left in the army. Pat can i just interrupt you and tell you that since the Cirrus came out there's a whole revolution in air taxis? These things are being used all across America as air taxis for commercial aviation Well, you know the prop planes are being used by Horizon and all these little puddle jumpers for small airports all over the place. But I've always been of the opinion that there's... That's because they have never shrunk the jet engine enough. Yeah, absolutely right. Because if you do the math on how two engines work

55:36 These jets are just superior to props. Oh, absolutely! Well that's what this whole VLJ category is about is they're called very light jets and they're all using these new smaller turbines Honda is coming out with two engines, but it's also a very light jet. It will have a very low price. It's different and much more of a corporate type get me from A to B quick thing whereas this Cirrus looks like a family roundabout When you look at the site later, you'll see a picture of a minivan and how they modeled everything. Even the doors open up like a minivan. You know gull-winged doors opening on both sides easy to get into That's the future man! It is still expensive but look how cheap that it's 50% or 100% reduction in price in just a few years

56:31 Well, 50%. The 100% would be free. I'm sorry, 50%. The thing that intrigues me here is the jet again and not so much because I can't afford one of these obviously and I don't fly but I'm looking at this as like there's an interesting investment opportunity for people making these small jets. So they're a company making this little fanjet, the FJ33-4A-19. It's a company called Williams. What do we know about them? I don't know much about them at all except there's a whole story there as well. The engine companies to me are always Pratt & Whitney, General Electric and Rolls Royce are the big boys. Yeah these... Well it's all this new technology to be able to create this shit in your garage It's interesting you know Hey here is one for ya John I just wanted to read this This was on the front page of the Financial Times yesterday This was kind of amazing So Gazprom

57:29 which of course is the Russian gas and oil company who I think they pretty much stole everything from every other company and person who owned anything that had to do with gas and oil in Russia. Isn't that kind of what's been happening for the past five years? There is some level, there is some kinda corruption we don't understand Yeah So anyway, the CEO said, he came out and said OPEC doesn't determine the price of oil anymore. He says even if they raise production the price of oil still goes up. He says they have no real influence on prices not a single decision has been passed of late that would really influence the global oil market and here it comes in the coming years Gazprom will not just

58:14 will be not just a major company in the world, but the most influential in the energy business. Adding that its target was to reach a market capitalization of one trillion dollars and goes on to say... check this out... competition for gas and other energy resources was growing He stood by his prediction that price of oil would hit $250 a barrel next year Wow! That's a good one! And front page man I was like holy crap I haven't heard the 250 thing. I know they're pushing to 200 so we I was doing Andrew Horowitz's show today and Because he had Michael Greenberger on what time you do this really early this morning Yeah, that feel great yeah, but is that it was that video? Maybe I'm the grouch no um

59:06 No, it was just an audio thing. But Michael Greenberg is the guy who's been testifying in front of the Senate... He is a former regulator about the fact that these oil prices are fixed! They're rigged! There's a phony baloney market that has no supervision and nobody knows what's really going on in the background And this president of Shell came out the other day saying hey, the oil prices are bullshit The price should be around 80 bucks Meanwhile, Barroso the president of the European Union said it has nothing to do with traitors but he's... He has started an investigation. They will report back in December Yeah when we're broke When we're broke thank you So uh

59:50 The fact of the matter is, this all stems from a 2000 writer put into a bill in Congress called the Enron loophole. And I tell people you can go look it up and read it all you want on your own and this loophole's never been closed as what caused the Enron crisis is what's caused the national... You know that fact that Morgan Stanley now holds monopoly powers over most of the heating oil that's going to be going into the Northeast And not heating oil, but the natural gas that people use to warm their houses when it gets cold. And there's all these other elements of just out and out corruption based on the fact that there is an unregulated trading market that is essentially fixed. There's no supply and demand problem like all these writers are putting out there because if you have a supply, you'd be able to transparently see if there is but somebody telling ya yeah we got... You wanna buy some futures contract for oil? It's 140!

1:00:51 And that's it. You got no choice, because they're making it up! And then there is 142 tomorrow and then 150. So while you just said that I googled Enron loophole the top link is something called stopoilspeculators.com Have you seen that one? No, I haven't No, but people should be catching up to this stuff. They should be aware of this! And this is happening in London we talked about this last week it's happening in London and most of the actions in Dubai which is a conflict of interest and that argument is although Dubai is regulating you shouldn't have to worry because they're regulating this or not why would they? The so-called swaps loophole

1:01:33 Financial investors can game the markets for pure profit by buying up positions in the energy markets without any limitation on the size of the positions they can take. One recent estimate suggested that they now control one third of the commodities markets or 150 billion dollars, a 1000% increase in less than five years It's the money maker. Yeah, you know if we could... So but here's the deal that Greenberger made clear because I was bitching about he was bitchin' about couple of New York Times columnists that are also on the wrong side of the argument

1:02:11 But he says that right now these guys, the various investment houses Morgan Stanley, the other one... Well anyone who's in commodity swaps basically. Anyone who is in commodity swaps He says that right now they've got so many lobbyists because the Congress is knowledgeable about this, but they're still not closing the loophole completely and it needs to be done. And there's a million lobbyists that are in Congress right now trying to talk people into not taking that position anymore just you know let it happen free market you know fair you know this whole free market absolutism which is like screwing us because its not a free market when it's rigged

1:03:00 and the public has to start writing their congressmen and senators and bitching, saying look we're watching you if you vote with these guys your voting against... you know just voting for high gas prices. Fucking us yeah screwin' us over And so the whole thing is a scam. So on the lines of something similar to that, if you have a chance John listen to yesterday's Daily Source Code I know you don't...you know..you have no time and your busy life but... I almost listened to it yesterday Okay because i interviewed Vivian Redding and she is the commissioner of the information society and media for the European Union. She is in what I call Starfleet command, this is...she's at the same level as Nellie Kroos, the woman who was fined Microsoft billions of dollars? Yeah! And so um..I spoke with her and uh... she did something really interesting In Europe today we still have roaming

1:03:55 pricing when you go from one country to the next. And of course we're trying to pull Europe together, to be one entity in United States of Europe So when you go from... with the UK of course anywhere on the continent but even if you cross the border from Holland into Belgium and there's not even a sign as far as I can recall it's not like welcome to Belgium all sudden your there or if keep driving to Germany you don't have show your passport any this But then you're on roaming prices, the way it used to be in the States until the big networks really got created. Even if you have Vodafone in the UK and there's a Vodafone in every one of these countries You're still paying for incoming calls up to 20 euro cents per minute Outgoing calls are like 60 or 70 euro cents per minute Text messaging 50 cents per... Oh shit! Did I lose you John?

1:04:45 Yeah, it sure sounds like it. I knew that was gonna happen Hold on we'll get John back. Hold on. Can you hear me? Yeah yeah I gotcha Boy that was... Fuck them Skype like completely crashed and started whining and all kinds of stuff Yeah as soon as you did You went offline and everything Yeah no It crashed really hard Anyway so were back I don't even know what I was saying anymore Alright well I do I know exactly what you were saying And you can go right in Cut right into it uh... you're saying is that it was twenty cents to get an incoming call right so i think that's a lot of going roaming so anyway so this is our email and then for mobile data if you want use the internet from a different country than your home country fifteen euros rights that almost thirty bucks per megabyte so near this obviously the shit had stopped and writes yell you know it's it's it's in fucking outrage so this uh... vivian reading

1:05:42 In February, she said alright you guys can't be trusted. I'm going to slap down regulation on voice calls so she did and the calls have actually become reasonably affordable like 36 euro cents per minute for an outgoing call it's still just a start But anyway, so I start following this woman and all the stuff that she's doing. And you know she's like really bringing the hammer down and she is saying to every single one of these operators, she is saying, um... You better bring down your text messaging or your data pricing by July 1st if you don't then I'm gonna kick your ass! Then I am going to put regulation into place So I called her up and right now they even have this

1:06:28 Her current pricing demand is 28, just as a benchmark. It's $0.28 if you send an SMS text message while roaming which is still of course an outrageous amount for the resources it takes And so I'm talking to her and said, well you know here in the Netherlands not a single one of these operators could basically blow on the whistle. It was really cool and she's going to hammer him! It was only like eight minute interview but fascinating how much power she has and it is really interesting be here talk about

1:07:04 about Europe and how this, you know how we have to harmonize these markets and yeah you get these operators and they're all like no let the market work it'll be okay. And she's like bullshit? She almost said bullshit! I was just really endeared to how she was speaking and just the power that emanates from her words i'm like that's really interesting there is your government doing something for you of course if it gets turned against you its equally as scary but Yeah, no. That's the one good side I have to say. The Neely woman and this woman obviously they're consumer oriented and there is nothing wrong with that. And you know...I'm sick of the deregulation and free market absolutism which is

1:07:53 You know, which I mean we're not... there's a reason for governments. We're not a bunch of anarchists! If you take everything to a logical extreme the free market should have NO LAWS that the free market decide and if you don't like your competition you can shoot them and they can shoot back at ya. That's what it really boils down to. It's some bullshit. No, you have to have laws against murder Well if you have to have laws against murder then you have to have laws against other things too, don't you? So, or just have no laws and we can just shoot each other. So the whole thing makes no sense from a logical perspective and the fact that were getting screwed over by these operators that are essentially quasi price fixing and manipulative powers it's ridiculous! And something has to be done about it obviously the public doesn't give a crap because they don't do anything but you know complain of each other maybe...

1:08:41 so i saw a couple of so i i called up and i complain as if these guys are complying she says well i did give them until july first said maybe a miracle on how it can happen i think that you can maybe the dutch will win the european cup uh... you know and um... because he taught me a new word because you know i was basically you know i i wanted to see if she really understood you what they actual cost were of feel like mobile data in a hundred and forty characters in a text message so you know i'd like a launch into this thing about Now this is a scam, it costs nothing. Once you're connected the data is so minimal The only reason they jacked up these prices because they want you to keep using the phone voice How can you as the information society commissioner stand by and watch this shit happen? Then she said yes it's an anachronism I was like holy crap! What's that?! It was good word though which basically means something not of this age

1:09:40 Yeah, it's a classic. The funny thing is I have to bring up this kind of an American side to this which has always fascinated me. You know, I've always thought when the mobile phone business began in the US and we didn't have a lot of competition And it was, you know, almost like the key business where one guy had a whole area to himself and you're kind of stuck with it. That kind of thing and there's a lot of competition in Europe. There are bunches different companies but when you start looking at the actual prices that you pay per minute It seemed to me that when I already talked to people in Europe they were paying always more especially when they were roaming. I mean its ridiculous amounts of money and they seem to be on their phone more! How do they afford it?

1:10:29 Yeah, well you know so nationally that you can get some pretty good deals obviously. So when it's all traversing a national network if the whole family has T-Mobile or Orange or whatever obviously they have great deals in that and they have bundles It is all about marketing trying to give you something that you really need and then charge little bit extra for something you don't really want but then maybe use it I mean at this point look at America uh... and this is a also on my conversation with some nokia folks and i think everyone pretty much knows that you know kia has uh... proportionally small corner of the market in the u s which may be acting in your ten percent or whatever and the reason why is instead were were production company we make stuff and then we have to go marketed but we can't market that mistakes cuz at the whole phone experience everything that is marketed to use about

1:11:28 The network, you know your network is with you. You've got more bars... ...more places for reception. None of it's about anything but that! It's never about the phone its always about the network and this is... These guys are just breaking in left and right its duopoly or whatever would fall under but you know it's totally unfair pricing Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought about it but except for Apple when they market their phone by themselves without the help of anybody Right right? But look how far that got them now now they have to cut deals Subsidy deals with all the carriers so there they're kind of slipping into the same patterns everyone else Right and but not you mentioned it. I never thought about this You're right The only ads you see are for the quality of network. Sorry. I didn't hear your on which John would you say

1:12:24 That's an interesting Freudian slip. The only ads that you see in the United States for cell phone, the cell phone business tends to be... well actually there are two kinds one is the network, your right and effective as all you see Who is that? Who is that there? Oh! That's my network although it was a group of people Right, though group of people which isn't good value can hear me now is part of And then the other one that you do get is the phony baloney, sign everybody up for a family plan. You get to call your top five as much as you want and we have that plan. It's bullshit! Oh really?

1:13:06 I mean, there's still all these weird charges and you can't figure out what the bill means. This is why I personally tell people look get a disposable phone The little phones that they give you for the disposable business are actually quite powerful They're in color now They've got a lot of features You can do SMS on them Well, I mean the same. You're talking about a phone that costs 20 bucks and then you buy some time every once in awhile and if you don't... you know, it lasts the whole year! I mean, I don't get a monthly bill that's indecipherable My wife uses the old regular system She gets bills for hundreds of dollars And I'm like putting out 12 bucks every once in awhile The difference is ridiculous If we want to go through the trouble It's a hassle

1:13:52 You know, you and I probably aren't the typical phone customer. Not the mass market...you certainly aren't! No, because i don't like these things actually the curious thing about this is my daughter who's 13 now she'll be 14 soon She doesn't like yacking on the cell phone all the time. Maybe that'll change. No, no, Christina uses it for text messaging That's what that's really what its for its tech actually my son yeah my son who's 20-something he's young he still just finishing college He's in with a group of people and all they do is text message now

1:14:31 They're just constantly typing to each other. I never see him talk on the phone except once in a while he talks to his girlfriend, you know and has a short conversation but generally speaking... But they're not only text messaging but they are texting constantly! Yeah it's an ongoing conversation. My daughter is almost 18 and has the same behavior And what's really cute is my wife and daughter together You know how moms are? There's always a connection we want to know where they are Moms & daughters it's something special And she's always texting back and forth with Christina. Here is why I got to tell you something that is funny, so we should probably do this reconnect here on Skype or maybe I should try calling you. You had just a minute ago... I couldn't hear at all but have never heard this on Skype ever and I'd like to get an explanation for it

1:15:21 I didn't hear you at all and then you came on, I didn't miss anything. You came on at high speeds like a fast forward talking really fast. Oh John this is...I've been listening to you that way for the past hour almost we had the shittiest connection don't want to say anything but yeah what it does is it tries do catch up and so it's It's actually pretty smart, so you don't really lose any of the conversation because the degradation of the connection. It just speeds up to catch-up in real time. Yeah it's really smart shit. But I'm listening to it and saying, wow! That's the way the whole show should be. It should be in triple speed. There you go. You know, you could run it through a process that do that. Did you see that I encoded at like 64 kilobits? To make a much smaller file size on last week's show? It sounded the same. Yeah because its just my voice and crappy Skype so...you don't need much more

1:16:19 So what was the size, what's the file size? Yeah because the show is so long. Well I know people want to put it on thumb drives and they want to burn it as an mp3 onto a CD or you know... The length of course determines that you still need two CDs but I have gotten complaints in the past where people say yeah its just unnecessary. They're like yeah thats a good point Yeah, no it isn't. That's a good point I'm one of the types who burn things on CDs Yeah, I like that too honestly For in the car Well it's because I can throw it in the car You know, I don't have a hook up. It would be cool if i had a USB car. The new BMWs they have USB connectors to their stereo system. Oh it's not even BMWs my daughter's Renault Twingo has an MP... so it has a regular 3 1⁄2 mm audio jack and as an iPod connector and it has a thumb drive connector

1:17:16 connect a thumb drive and it'll play it right through the system. And this is, you know... little cheap car I, you know, think probably most of the cars should be having that if they don't already. I haven't kept up and don't have a new car currently That's kind my point because it has become... It is the cup holder of the year 2008 You know? Yeah this can't too expensive to implement But until i get that your wagon should be at thumb drives away to go If could put this thing as you get the file on the thumb drive The thumb drive I carry around 32 gigabytes So there are lots of room

1:17:53 And so I would, or did I just take any old thumb drive? What difference does it make. But anyway stick it...I'd put it on as a just as the download file an MP3 and a thumb drive then I stick it on the car and listen to it. I think you know this is an untapped You know people still have mixed feelings about audio podcasting, but I still think that this is really what... Because this is what I prefer listening to in my car. Yeah. Uh, I'd rather listen to lectures about stuff that I'm, well, I want to hear about it or I'd rather hear one of these shows that doesn't have a lot of commercials and its personalities are more contemporary than the typical radio personalities no offense you guys and you know it's not like me now I'm a kid

1:18:38 But I'd rather have that stuff. And I wonder if, you know how many people are out there obviously thousands that are already moved over completely and they just stop listening to the radio? You know we're talking to Leo on one of the shows recently who's a radio guy and he just thinks radios been dead for years. Yeah it is so first of all I totally agree second this reminds me I think there was a company called Podango I think that what their called and always like what And they have some marginal success. I'm not quite sure exactly what they're doing, haven't tracked them but i think they got some funding and the idea was just good They distribute thumb drives that includes player software So you stick it in any computer It kind of auto recognizes up pops a player and there's kind of like your on-the-go radio experience You can plug into almost any computing type device or any device that will understand how to play the files

1:19:32 Um, and I pretty much exclusively listen to audio shows from...I've set up a couple of channels so my iPod always has the latest episodes of stuff that i want to listen too. I will say though that I find that probably have about 40% what we call mainstream in there So stuff like The New York Times front page or I do listen to On The Media, is another NPR show that i like. But the rest of it all pretty much independent

1:20:09 In the UK though, the radio still... like Radio 4 is still pretty damn good. I mean there's some really interesting shit they're doing on radio and they still have a radio culture here which is pretty deeply embedded and it's not all top 40 or whatever genre music with Monkeys reading liner cards and stuff like that. It's a good radio You don't have the commercial interruptions which really changes the flow show I mean, people who listen to me on any of these things know that I'm like a fan I do listen to the radio but I tend to be a fan

1:20:49 of the worst kind of radio, although it may be the best kind of radio which is sports talk radio. Which is you know brain dead a lot people don't get but I listen to it and also listened to political right wing chatter which I find highly entertaining and interesting I probably don't listen to anything else. I do listen to some college stations once in a while when I'm close to them, they're very low power typically because they don't have any commercials and I will listen to NPR once in awhile but NPR is I think it's very slow moving and its ponderous and they...and it's got the voice that always you know the guys talking like then there had this certain kind of sound to it and there's a kind about a fake grubby toss that slightly annoying when you listen to it

1:21:38 But I do, and will listen to. I'll get on a public radio station and stay on it for awhile but generally speaking they still aren't as good as some of these podcasts and most of those guys are doing podcasts too! So let me ask you question... Do you have a system set up? Do you use iTunes or just grab something at random? Do you find yourself repeating downloading things, you know I mean i basically have a channel set up on Vivo and that's always synced to my iPod so it has the latest things. I can tell you what I'm listening too but do you have a set number of things you listen? No no I don't like...I am more of the hunter-gatherer type instead of automating it like I should

1:22:22 But that would limit my kind of exposure to weird stuff. I'm like one of the worst guys, I'm like the kind of guy who visits my blog which they show up once in a while but they're not coming every day and essentially what i'll do is find a cache of interesting podcasts right now im plowing through this stuff thats been done over the last number of years Ad tech conferences. All right, yeah Right they have a slew of podcasts and they're all hour-long because there are essentially presentations With you know you miss out because you can't see the PowerPoint but usually we don't need our point that's just there to

1:23:04 I have something for people to look at. But, I've been downloading those things and listening to those constantly hours and hours of this kind of thing because I'm a marketing hobbyist so I'm listening all these what the trends are and all this other stuff and now go through probably most of them it'll be taking me about a month or two then I'll go scrounging around find some other website with some interesting podcasts I'll sample a couple And if they interest me, I'll burn them on the seat. So I'm not a normal listener and if I'm just gonna listen to something casual, I'll listen to probably some crap on the radio. You wanna hear my list? Because it's always the same

1:23:51 go. So he records it off of Sirius and then he puts up a little feed, a little private feed. And so I get that and sometimes I'll listen to two hours of Howard Stern but most of it just stays there un-listened too but I do like to see who his guests are. But anyways...so I have New York Times front page. I have a test thing called the Robot Weather which is a robot voice weather transcoder for the Guilford region then I have Tech 5 Meet The Press video

1:24:38 news pod which is the... this actually that's a great you should listen to that one John, the BBC News Pod. Which is it highlights from all the best... BBC News? Okay yeah it's highlights from all the best BBC radio programs and of course talk shows from the previous day and about 30 minutes each time it's like a great catch-up That's perfect! Yeah I think he'd like that Buzz out loud which haven't been listening too a lot recently for awhile I listened every day then Pacific Coast Hellway uh... on the media in business which is another bbc show it's peter day another great one um... that i have uh... that i've got to have heard that when i just couldn't get that's good at the gilmore gang which had a kind of stop listening too and uh... yeah i was listening

1:25:24 regularly for a while that went away. I've got Lost Tapes, then I've got Newsweek On Air, then I have Twit, BBC Breakfast Takeaway another one you might be interested in it's the morning news segment from BBC Breakfast Show its video Then I have Dope Fiend the cannabis podcast network I have CNN Marketplace Update, New York Times Music Popcast and I have the Jazz Suite. I love the company. Irwin's Podcast, NPR Fresh Air, Dr. Cockney, The President's Weekly Address...I love listening to that! That is always funny

1:26:03 Hey Mr. Jesse, it was a great music show. Advice with Don, that's Don Maselli from the hills of Florence is my sister in Italy and then there is stuff at the end I may not even listen to on regular basis There are couple more but that goes on a bit That's kind of my regular list as you can tell most of its shorter form Yeah, well I mean you don't listen to that every day then it rotates out right? Yeah whenever there's a new episode it comes in and if I miss it then I just miss it. You know I don't even catch up on those things most of the time Well what point do you...and I always worry about this because I do all lot of these podcasts myself. This one here in particular is the most experimental because its so damn long! We're an hour-and-a-half almost John Oh actually now it's shorter than that because theres a piece we gotta cut out when we lost connection but yeah it's long

1:26:54 It's a long show and it goes on and on and nobody complains about the length generally. And that makes it worse because then we don't feel obliged to keep it to some... I know, like I'm not done yet, it's almost an hour-and-a-half! Let's break the two hour limit, we can do it Johnny! Let's don't but anyway so ummm.... We will anyway you know that So what is it that gets people to the point like you said you don't listen to Gilmore gang anymore and You know and buzz out loud was a but I remember when you first discovered that you were like jacked up about it And he listens to constantly yeah, and well, and I wonder because I do. You know this not my listening habits are different because I listen to mostly lectures and

1:27:38 But what is it that happens, and I wonder about this for just anybody because you have to assume that some people who are listening to No Agenda maybe for the first 20 episodes and then at some point they just stopped. Yeah What happens? What is it about, you get sick of the two jerk-offs or are you just... I mean what is it that... Are they repeating themselves or what is the sociology here. Well there's a couple things at play and speaking partly from my experience in radio It has to do with the regularity of it. So, here's the trends I detect... When people get hooked it is like mainline and if they can't listen to something during one day because what gets in their way of course is life not everyone's life is exactly the same your commute is not exactly the same your mood is not exactly the same which is why we have choice and why you can listen to different things

1:28:35 But if you're jacked into a show which is, you know, longer format like this one or Daily Source Code or Twit is another perfect example. When your jacked into that your mainlining, it's like you can't miss out on the conversation because something happened in previous episode and you have to catch up So the shorter form stuff is much easier to dip in and out of uh... but that long-form stuff yet a certain point i think you just get tired of it and by the way you know if okay you know come back here in a couple months are you when i am who lived in new jersey and drove to new york every single morning five days a week um... every morning at least now howard stern religiously even the replays when he was on vacation and what we can do would happen every single time after no

1:29:23 X amount of weeks or sometimes days. You're like, I don't feel like it anymore It just changed but you come back you know you go in and out it's just life John that just gets in the way now What I've taken away from it is my daily source code is no longer daily And I found that unfortunately the name doesn't fit anymore But people kind of anticipate you know so now I do maybe two or three shows a week this last week was horrible only did one? but I know that It'll be good because I've got all the energy together and that's kind of the other side of the equation. When we do this one show a week, I look forward to it, it builds up, I'm excited about doing it on Saturday but my life also changes in its dynamic so you know

1:30:07 roll out a show, I can schedule time every morning at 9 to record but it's going to suck because i won't be in my element. So the fluidity of this is really important not that I've cracked anything on that yet but yes its from both ends. Distill that. There are couple issues here you kind of touched on One of them, by the way for people out there we have to do the next couple shows on Sundays because I'm going up to Washington for the 4th of July. I'll be back on Sunday or Saturday night actually and uh... The week after that is my daughter's birthday so it's a Sunday. So people complain to me on email that oh you know where's this show? Where is this show? Where is this show? And yeah occasionally we do the show on Sundays sometimes on Thursday

1:30:53 But they're always stunned when we're not doing it. You know when you don't post it, where's the show yeah? It's late Yeah, it's like come on I mean give us a break but you know I think that's cool actually that people are that into is that they would complain about them You know and not being there when they needed their you know fix oh but the thing that let's go back and look at the your commentary about what you know you get sick of that he came back to her and people can come in dole you know they can listen to show for months on end and then they can stop listening to say hey didn't have a comeback defective union in the classic sense of marketing uh... and this is too old super blogs and

1:31:28 Two, is that once you lose a customer the rule has always been it's harder to get a lost customer back than it is to get a new customer. And do you really think that when people stop listening to NOA agenda that they ever come back? Yeah absolutely! Oh 100% certain of it yeah oh they definitely come back. It's some old rule Well, fuck the old rule. I'm just saying it's a violation there is no reason and that there is something else at work here that they would do that in other words they never really quit this show now I think you've probably quit The Gilmore Gang No! No, no, no...I disagree I have temporarily also this is very long show and its like almost every day so I just don't have time but you know twit even though some

1:32:13 sometimes, you know like uh... this wasn't really a show for me it's not going to make me quit because I know next week it could be extremely exciting could be right on the money. It could be there is a lot of excitement depending on who the guests are and I'm totally mainlined on that show no doubt about it but if its um... If you have a couple in a row that don't work for me yeah I may quit. Well let's stop there an bring this issue in years and years and years ago when I was at the University of California. Can i just say one thing John? I'm sorry, I want to add one dimension to it

1:32:49 Don't forget that quitting listening to the show is not the same as unsubscribing. Particularly with these audio shows, they still may be coming through on someone's iPod or an iTunes. They may...iTunes might even temporarily disable it saying hey you haven't listened to this in a long time so I'm not going to update it but that doesn't mean that you're not just one click away from jacking back into the show which is a little different from what type of marketing speak scenarios that you outline. No your right because apparently its always there You can be tempted, but I want to bring up an interesting point which is a lecture. I heard that Wheeler auditorium some years ago by Phil Spector When he was he was a you wasn't the crazy Phil specter He later became but he was still a little weird But he came into do they used have these famous people that would come into the University of California and you know after hours And give these lectures in the big auditorium Wheeler would hold a thousand people and they'd pack them in

1:33:47 And I went to a lot of these things and you get to hear a lot of people, and afterwards you can hang out with them if you wanted too. Spector came in to do his hour which lasted three-and-a-half hours. It was three-and-a-half hours of riveting anecdotes and observations. He talked about the singles business back in the day when they were 45s and they had hit single. He says that he says the key to success for the hit single business was that you could never, as long as you had two singles that were dogs in a row.

1:34:23 So you were done, you were out of business. You had to have a hit single and then you had to have a hit single that was what they would play on the jukeboxes Then he had to have a hit single then you could have a dog, you could be excused one dog in a row Then you'd have to have a hit, the next one has to be a big hit And I've always felt this model is actually what I use when I write columns Because not every column's a gem But if ever write a crappy column in my publications and I know it's crap I will go out of my way to write a gem the next time because i'm aware of this two dogs and now you're when you do the two dogs, you've lost customers if you're not lost your job as would be in the record industry.

1:35:02 And so I wonder when you have these shows like, you know and you talk about twit in our show and other shows that people listen to and it's a more risky with the longer format obviously If you can really get away with having two crappy shows in a row like the you know What is it does? It really set you back. Unfortunately there's not a lot of good metrics on this stuff Yeah, I think that's a very interesting point and I would say that that it sounds It feels right that two shows in a row that are crappy, you know, that would warrant a temporary suspension. But that is of course what's completely interesting about this medium is

1:35:41 You don't have to do a show. It's not like the air time is scheduled and waiting for you, it has to be filled up and that of course is the downside of regular program. And I'm sure...you can probably say more about this than I can because you actually do a show five days a week in your have a fixed format and sometimes, I am pretty sure, it must sound, it must feel like a chore Like oh crap I got to do that and you fit it in either before you go to bed or whatever your schedule is. Whereas with daily source code, I know I'm going to do a couple of week and then I kind of live towards it and sometimes have a shitty show or at least that I feel as a shitty show And you're absolutely right! You know? I never go back and review a shitty show just like hey there'll be another one next time and I'll do twice as good

1:36:27 But to have two dogs in a row, I think you're right. And that is the danger with regularly scheduled programming where even being late on posting something can piss off your audience Right They get... they are fickle this group and that's again the reason why i went into team blogging too because i knew the problem with blogs uh... all i did you know i can't eat it wasn't i was in the original team blogger writing is going going which is one of the most successful blogs in the world is a teen blog and more publication now and uh... but you know i went to that because they're keys at two blogging and tell people this all time is that you have to post a lot or people just won't come back and has to do with the with maybe the two dogs theory which is you go to the blog you say you have a bloody like you follow in the next thing you know

1:37:18 And you know this when you go surfing, you go back to the blog and it hasn't been updated for months. You never go back... I mean basically that's it, you may go back one more day but thats it, you got your two dogs. You went there, it hasn't been updated, you go back and its not updated, you never go back And I think that's the reason most blogs have lousy attendance. They can't keep up, and there are guys who...I'm always amazed by guys like the Jaywalk blog, Walkenbushes' blog which I'd love to just have him talk them into saying look why don't we come over and do something else? Do a team blog. This guy for awhile I was competing with because I was doing the blog myself and he was much better blogger than I am

1:38:06 I mean, he really gives really good stuff. He's got a lot of interest and he has a good insight on things but then when I look at his blogging, he is like blogging himself five six seven eight times a day holy crap you can't keep up that kind of pace and when i first started blogging by the way I wasn't even putting up that much I was putting up like five posts maybe which was it which is not enough to make people come back by the way And I would get letters from people saying, Dvorak you just started blogging. You're gonna burn yourself out! You're gonna be like everybody else. You're trying too hard. You're blogging too much and I'm thinking wait there's a conflict of my thinking here one you have to blog a lot to keep people coming back but i'm blogging too much and I'm not blogging enough

1:38:48 So that's when I said, forget it. I'm bringing in some guys who you know that want to get the... because i have the numbers and so the people that get that blog with me, the editors they are getting a lot of attention which they wouldn't be able to do on their own single blogs. Well its the quick hit mentality you know? And by the way I don't actually go to blogs anymore. I use Google Reader and so It just pops up, right? Oh there's something new. So I'm not wasting any time going around to blogs and basically looking at headlines and finding stuff that interests me which is severely underrated by the way the title of your post because that's how a lot of people get with email the same thing subject line most important marketing if you want me open up an email that subject line better say some interesting

1:39:35 No, actually one of the things we emphasize at The Dvorak Uncensored blog which is dvorak.org slash blog for anyone who hasn't been there is headline writing in fact we go memos you know I used to do a monthly memo on headline writing because it's important and I'll go into myself and as far as I'm concerned people if they're doing blog posts they want to learn how to do headline writing they should get us a subscription to The New York Daily Post uh... the postman you know newspaper in new york city is get good headlines and um... and also that you know there's a lot of uh... a lot of those tabloids are at the news it did to check out counter but the star the inquirer place like that this headlines are outstanding here's the only hits the room a little like game on our playing yesterday because this is a conversation they were having internally inside the company as well if you have a magazine just laying around just any random magazine

1:40:34 John, just pick it up and read. It's funny when you do it... I just picked up a random magazine here so I'll go first. And I'm going to read what is on the cover which basically marketing me to buy this magazine at £3.70 Michael Stutz, Dream Destination. WT9 Dynamic Mighty Microlight Aircam Lightweight Twin Splash Show Report Hovering Out of Wind Binder EB-28 The Ultimate Sailplane You know that's good shit man Well there is a couple of things you should always note

1:41:16 American magazines tend to be subscription oriented and they don't have the great headlines of the European magazines, especially the ones in Great Britain which tends to be newsstand oriented in terms of getting their circulation to a certain point. And what I always tell people who are in the magazine business if they happen to be traveling in Europe especially England where you can understand what the headlines are saying You should go to the new stands in England and look at the racks Yeah! ...and take a look at these covers because you see dynamic grabbing covers everywhere. And the only time that shows up in the States happens to be with Felix Dennis's magazines, Maxim is one of the great magazine covers that you'll ever see because it's British

1:42:06 But yeah, but the bloggers have to learn this because you're right if you're getting that little laundry list from Google Alert or whatever it is. You're talking about alert but Google Reader. It's a list of headlines and most of them are so dull, you know? You don't want to click on any of them. Nope! That's another thing man Album Art anyway we could go on forever about all that Are we done? Do we have anything else? God, no. I mean god yes were done. Yeah hold on let me just see if i had anything else. I know I circled something... I did have one! I was going to talk about the Mexicans invading uh the United States and Mexican army killing some people in Phoenix and Oh really? They're um yeah it's just really some weird shit going on nobody's talking about much Well give me some more info man what's happening

1:42:54 Well, it's on the blog actually. I have to bring up the story... well there was a murder in Phoenix and the perpetrator seemed to be in the Mexican army working on behest of drug overlords which seem to have taken over most of the border towns in the United States. And they've definitely taken over all the border towns in Mexico to bring drugs into the country and besides the murder in Phoenix which nobody really covered much There's another story that developed where one of our U.S. congressmen had a relative that was kidnapped from her store in Juarez and held for ransom, which is by the way serious problem in Mexico and it has been going on for long time. This happens all over the world man kidnapping but you actually pay the money to get the person back I mean its a business Yeah you pay them money so its extortion, kidnapping extortion

1:43:52 To the point, I mean in Mexico for example. I was told a long time ago because you don't like go to Mexico City some of the best parts timing and You don't see many really cool cars And somebody mentioned to me well, you know The thing is if you really got a lot of money in Mexico you buy it clunker Yeah No yeah people think you're just some bum, you know You've got like, you know missing hubcaps and that things like crabbed and it needs paint, you know your you gotta made So you don't see a lot of Mercedes and you don't see anything cool. And in Brazil, where they actually do like to have nicer cars...

1:44:30 I'm, it was the last time i was there which was like a year or year and half ago. Uh... We go past we're driving around looking at stuff and then we go past a uh car dealership that's just apparently very popular huge car dealership anybody had this weird portuguese name for these cars? I can't remember what it was but yeah never saw this word before so oh that's a car our dealership that slots bulletproof cars For the rich people, so you'd buy a Mercedes in Sao Paulo that would be like ruggedized. I mean essentially you know at the door you push a button and everything locks up and they can't shoot through the glass. Armor plated yeah The car weighs a ton right? Yeah And I'm thinking well that's how they handle it but ya know that hasn't gotten into the US yet but i am always worried that it will because now we have a congressman

1:45:20 by the freedom of somebody and we're supposed to be the country that doesn't deal with terrorists that way but meanwhile you know then do in the u.s government was like involved in this negotiation I thought it just like, its not a good sign alright got last one last one my uncle Don was in Korea this week and did you, and the result of his work is in the paper and what is it? oh you didn't hear about this yeah they uh... They released the information about their nuclear program and everything they've done since like the 60s, and President Bush said oh well now I'm going to take you off the axis of evil.

1:46:09 And your uncle Don had something to do with this? Oh hell yeah. He's a major negotiator for the US and both South and North Korea. He is the president of the Korean Society which is, I'm sure some kind of front or something but no... The guy was ambassador in South Korea so he knows a hell of lot In fact, he even wrote New York Times op-ed on 17th where he said, hey you know and it's so funny because I didn't quite understand what it was about. He said don't mess with the Koreans with their beef you know? Don't mess with their beef because they get really emotional about it because this is what their parents and grandparents have always made a living on its kind of like a holy topic and Condoleezza Rice sure shooting like reading in the paper this morning she says saying to the people Korea well please consider trying our beef

1:47:04 Well, you know when I went there which was just a few weeks ago. I'm reading the newspapers over there and watching the TV and there's all these riots taking place about American beef and how everybody thinks they're being poisoned and also it wasn't...there wasn't one peep of this information in the US media. Well except for my uncle Don's op-ed he said when do you remember in the 80s? Must have been in the eighties I think When people attacked the U.S. Embassy in South Korea Yeah. Okay, so my Uncle Don was the ambassador at the time and he wrote about that I'll send you the link to his op-ed piece He wrote about it said when people got so pissed off So angry they broke into the embassy cost $35,000 worth of damage It was about the freaking beef! You gotta leave them alone They do not want foreign beef They want...it's a whole cultural thing This is what the guy understands That's interesting because

1:48:02 That's interesting because I know their beef, they're like major...I mean the beef is a staple part of their diet. And it's part of one of their great dishes in Korea are beef dishes and I'm sure some vegetarian will write you know that's not true they do vegetables too. For most part its a beef thing when you go to a great Korean restaurant your eating It's usually thin sliced, gorgeous. I mean it is beautiful! The food in Korea is really nice In the Korean copies that we have over here are always kind of lame Well so...I think that uh... well.. I wouldn't have known any of this I'm looking for this letter now hold on here it is let me just...it's a short one Can I just read this? Do you mind?

1:48:51 Yeah, go. Okay to the editor regarding South Koreans assail a US pact shaking leader front page June 11 about the large demonstrations in Seoul in October 1989 six Korean college students broke into the American ambassadors residence and soul ended $35,000 worth of damage before being arrested by the Korean police I was the ambassador and the issue was beef Modern Korean society still has deep roots in its agricultural traditions and Koreans can get very defensive about any issue that seems to threaten the livelihood of grandpa and grandma back on the farm. Even if this causes them to pay twice as much for inefficiently produced Korean beef, as they would for foreign imports This is a delicate issue that needs to be handled with sensitivity by leaders in Seoul and Washington so the question of beef does not derail the important free trade agreement with South Korea being considered by Congress

1:49:41 The issue also needs to be placed in a broader context. South Korea is a tremendous ally of the United States, it sent more than 300 thousand troops to help us in Vietnam was quick and generous supporter Desert Storm in 1991 and for several years had the third largest deployment of troops in Iraq following our invasion of that country five years ago notice the word following our invasion of that country five years ago Without our strong alliance with South Korea, our influence in Asia would be vastly diminished. Let us keep the fact clearly in mind as we deal with the fractious beef issue." Interesting I love it how he sneaks that into that- That explains a lot! That invasion thing and he's like Mr Republican you know what? He hates Georgia W. He hates this whole thing. So angry Yeah a lot of Republicans do but

1:50:30 But that explains a lot, that's interesting. Because when they were having the beef riots when I was over there They were rationalizing it as our beef was tainted with mad cow Well, it probably is. I mean dude are tomatoes of salmonella? Have you been following this bullshit what's going on with that shit? Those tomatoes are coming from Mexico What's going on with that how can tomatoes have salmonella is not something exclusive for the chicken Here's a way the way It was work This is the way it was explained to me That doesn't get a lot of coverage and I'm sure there's more details like somebody knows more than this But let me give you the basics

1:51:05 We began to use recovered waste water from sewage treatment plants as part of our agriculture. And figuring that it was a fine, you know... for everything In fact I think one of the processes is washing tomatoes at the end of a processing plant. It's not like we're getting tomatoes again from a farmer's market. So basically shit water? Yeah, but it's been processed so you could probably drink it and it wouldn't be a big deal. But we don't drink because we don't like the concept. It is fine for agricultural purposes now its believed that the exact same kind of factories that manufacture mass produced tomatoes are never really fully ripe to the crap you buy in the crummy stores not just stuff you get at farmers market or good vegetable store generally

1:51:53 The Mexicans decided they're going to do the same kind of processing, and they used the recovered wastewater. But unfortunately they never treated it. So it's just loaded with God knows what and the problem is these tomatoes are already de-stemmed And the stem hole, where the stem was that part of that tomato usually cut off is still will absorb water through it into the tomato during this process of washing. So you'd have these tomatoes rolling off the line being sprayed and wash them off a little bit and then water would get on top of that little area and then go soak right into the tomato gets sucked in because the tomato's going to look at this. Fucking Mexican poop water my tomato!

1:52:36 I mean, that's what they think is what happened. But nobody wants to say that and here's one of the reasons. One of the reasons is because there has been a... And this is the problem you can blame on Monsanto among other companies. They don't want to make it so we label the country of origin when it comes like tomato. It wouldn't cost much by the way because these machines at label nowadays are little stickers that you put on fruits and vegetables. You know? It's nothing but but there was a movement, a consumer movement to like where's this tomato from movement? And I want a sticker if it's a foreign tomato coming in from Ecuador. I wanna see an Ecuador sticker on it. If it's from Florida you know I'd like to know and no we can't do that because its too much you know would hurt relations and all this other crap so meanwhile we don't know where these tomatoes are from and they can't really say the Mexican tomato is causing this problem and then they're trying to point their finger at Florida

1:53:32 which I find hard to believe. You know, well it could be Florida if you read the news. It's bull! There is a bunch of crappy farmers... Mexican poop water tomatoes? Salmonella is the result of poop water?! You know, that doesn't make a lot of sense because Salmonella is not necessarily in poop water. But apparently whatever this... Wait a minute John please tell me that in 1972 you were actually an expert on poop water? Please give me one of those new environmental poop water specialists I was an air pollution specialist. But you know when i was working at the funny it's coliform testing which is kind of poop water oriented and then when i was at union oil we had to test for coliform uh... one of the things that effluent that goes out into the san francisco bay from their oil refinery if your one of the chemists at the place you have to test the water for coliform which is a good indicator for poop

1:54:31 and because you don't want to put too much poop into the bay. And so you do all these tests, you know? So I'm kind of an expert but not that much of an expert. I think... I'll sell it out. I'm just telling what they're worth. I'm going to have business cards made up. MeVeo John C. Dvorak Poop Expert. Yeah, yeah. You could be a poop expert! Alright But anyway So that's outrageous. And you know, they put made in China on every single iPod They might as well put made in Mexico on every tomato I mean...I agree it just...that's horseshit We deserve to know! We deserve to know where the food is coming from

1:55:11 That's an abstract, I never even thought in those terms. You're absolutely correct! If you have to put made-in China which you do on all this junk that the Chinese ship us and good quality too by the way like the iPod...I've got some quality products made in China but if you have to put a label on there for stuff that your not even eating Yeah when your putting shit in your face Mexican poop water infested tomatoes we should at least know Yeah, I don't get why you have... there should be a label on the... yeah we're eating this stuff. We're not eating iPods! I don't care! Yeah well, you know, you mentioned Monsanto and if you know anything about that... Has anyone ever emailed you about the Codex Alimentarius?

1:55:56 No. You've never heard of the Codex Alimentarius? I have, but i don't know if ever looked at it Okay so this is not for this show But let's both do some research on it Speaking of no agenda Now the codex is something that The World Trade Organization put into place in I think Let me say the 50s So, it's basically a trade agreement about what is in food that is imported and exported amongst countries that are members of the WTO. Now this has now become pretty much law In fact, in Europe the... so all the recommendations which are you know what can and cannot be in certain types of foods and what can or cannot be sold literally has resulted now. And in Europe this is already starting where I'm sure you've heard about this that you can't get certain vitamins over-the-counter anymore homeopathic medicines are being phased out and Monsanto was one of these big companies thats behind this Codex Alimentarius

1:56:56 And I believe that the January 1, 2009 it will be ratified as the code. Codex Alimentarius literally means the food code It will become the food code of the United States as well Or at least that's on the schedule...I think its the first of January 2009 and the European Union is already harmonizing with all laws and if you look at some conspiracy theory videos which I'm expert You know, this is really really bad shit. In fact it will probably... Some people say it could easily kill 3 billion people within 50 years or something. Malnourishment and that's taking to the extreme maybe but it is very clear that there is going to be a food code

1:57:44 that the government is going to set and will tell you what you can and cannot eat. I mean, that is what the Codex is all about. You know it's funny... It's like I'm always complaining about how Brussels is pushing the Europeans around with all these laws they're doing but I think its even more pathetic if Brussels is pushing us around. But anyway, let's go back to Monsanto just before we finish the show might as well go on a rant about Monsanto in some way. It's accompanied you know that lot of people dislike they actually essentially broke the backs of a couple of journalists in Florida who were like trying to blow the whistle on the company for being behind much of the laws that, for example... These laws are, most of them are, at least I don't think they apply in California. But there was attempting to make it so you could not put again we're going back to labeling laws. You could not put on a carton of milk that the cow's milk in that carton was a result of an animal that had been treated with

1:58:45 the bovine growth hormone that makes them produce 25% more milk. It was like, in California you see it's no BST or whatever it's called. None of these cows are made this milk and then if fact if you taste the milk from a cow that has been pumped up with this stuff- It's on top. It's kind of watery. It's watery! Yeah. It's crappy but anyway so Monsanto was behind them they drove these guys out they were really tight with the government and get a lot of these laws thats why probably Monsantos you know, kind of mentalities behind where we don't know where the tomatoes are coming from. Meanwhile here's what I'm predicting is going to happen that's going to be really interesting there's a number of

1:57:44 that the government is going to set and will tell you what you can and cannot eat. I mean, that is what the Codex is all about. You know it's funny... It's like I'm always complaining about how Brussels is pushing the Europeans around with all these laws they're doing but I think its even more pathetic if Brussels is pushing us around. But anyway, let's go back to Monsanto just before we finish the show might as well go on a rant about Monsanto in some way. It's accompanied you know that lot of people dislike they actually essentially broke the backs of a couple of journalists in Florida who were like trying to blow the whistle on the company for being behind much of the laws that, for example... These laws are, most of them are, at least I don't think they apply in California. But there was attempting to make it so you could not put again we're going back to labeling laws. You could not put on a carton of milk that the cow's milk in that carton was a result of an animal that had been treated with

1:58:45 the bovine growth hormone that makes them produce 25% more milk. It was like, in California you see it's no BST or whatever it's called. None of these cows are made this milk and then if fact if you taste the milk from a cow that has been pumped up with this stuff- It's on top. It's kind of watery. It's watery! Yeah. It's crappy but anyway so Monsanto was behind them they drove these guys out they were really tight with the government and get a lot of these laws thats why probably Monsantos you know, kind of mentalities behind where we don't know where the tomatoes are coming from. Meanwhile here's what I'm predicting is going to happen that's going to be really interesting there's a number of

1:59:28 of countries in South America who have banned the use of the Monsanto genetically engineered Roundup resistant weeds and some of these crazy seeds that they've invented. Genetically modified stuff, yeah. Right, genetically modified stuff which is illegal here and there but this stuff is getting into the wild Now, you know in fact where they've grown a lot of these crops the pollen from these crops goes into the neighbor and the next thing you know that next year they got said half the crop is this stuff. They don't even want

2:00:04 and now there's, I forgot what country but it was on one of these world reports that Bolivia maybe Ecuador some place or any other they had to change the law because this stuff is genetically modified you know pollens have gotten out and essentially changing everything. I suspect because the whole genetically modified business is a patented one that one of these days Monsanto's gonna walk into a field in Nebraska or someplace else and take a sample, kinda like the BSA does with software. Make you know make him do an audit And they're gonna find genetically modified products growing there that were not licensed

2:00:49 And they're gonna sue the farmer. Oh, really? And make him pay a fine for having that in there even though the farmers going to say well you know listen blew over and their documentation says it can't blow that far. You watch some really crazy lawsuits over this genetically modified stuff because those guys have got locked down I'm not, you know this is one of those issues that is so big and so broad and you know of course there's a deadline coming up that lots of people are starting to at least talk about it. And um...I'm just not schooled enough in exactly what's going on but once again there's lots of lectures

2:01:31 uh... you can be used to videos of some pretty serious looking people saying you know this is a real problem and you could take it the extreme and of course it is now the second part of the video was always and this is what they've always wanted to do you know that's correct that's the problem with a lot of these guys instead of presenting these things in a logical orderly way you may have people that present and i wonder sometimes i've always believed despite away if you want to make a point and you're on the bad side of an argument, and you want to kind of keep people from beating you up. You put a debate on where you have the bad side of the argument, whatever it is with a reasonable person who's very professorial and then bring on a guy who's against you, who's on the right side of the argument but is clinically insane

2:02:25 And so you have this, I've seen debates. I've seen TV debates like this where you have a Republican and Democrat and you know that one of the two sides put the whole thing together because you had one guy who was very reasonable... It's a nutcase! A nutcase yeah of course well anyway it's something we should look at We should look at it John. I'm sure people are going to send us all kinds of links and information Yeah, it's our topic for this or no agenda topic for a no-agenda show for next week if we remember Precisely. Hey I'm just pulling the brake here. I mean how can anyone listen to the shit for two hours? No, I don't know. I can't I certainly can really do it We're done hours right now. I'm playing the music you don't hear the music yeah, dude. You should hear it. Yeah, okay

2:03:18 Barely. Well, it's soft you know? It's called like a nice gentle fade and at the end I bring it up at the end of the show. It's all done in real time no joke here Are we gonna say goodbye? Yes Thank You John! I thoroughly enjoyed myself. I can think if no better way to spend a couple hours on a Saturday afternoon I wish it was less than a couple of hours, but I'm John C. Morgan up here in Northern California Smokeyville Now be smoking some meat tonight And I'm Adam Curry at the manor in the United Kingdom and Guilford Soaked in Sun we'll talk to you again next week right here on no agenda